MINUTES
OF MEETING
PINE
TREE WATER CONTROL DISTRICT
The
workshop meeting of the Board of Supervisors of the Pine Tree Water Control District
was held on
Present were:
David Rosenof
Margaret Bertolami
Paul Brewer
Donna Benckenstein
Mark Weissman
John Petty
DJ Doody
Warren Craven
Randy Frederick
John McKune
Several Residents
FIRST ORDER OF BUSINESS Roll Call
Mr.
Rosenof called the meeting to order and Mr. Petty called the roll.
SECOND
ORDER OF BUSINESS Presentation
by Mr. Warren Craven on Water Management Facilities, Ownership, Easements and
Rights-of-Way
Mr.
Craven stated as you are aware, we only have one outlet to discharge
water. We had difficulty with the right-of-way
of one canal, which we are in the process of resolving. It is a major concern to maintain it
free-flowing. The area south of the
Sawgrass Expressway drains north, under the Sawgrass Expressway, into a canal
paralleling the Sawgrass Expressway on the north side. The area in Pine Tree south of
Mr.
Rosenof asked what do the deeds of the residents who border the canal on the
south side of Pine Tree show? Do they
own part of the canal or are they consistent?
Mr.
Craven responded they are not consistent.
Mr.
Weissman asked what do they typically show?
Mr.
Brewer responded it will show they own the canal. The miscellaneous map will not come up in a
title search.
Mr.
Doody stated this is an ongoing legal debate between this District and the
county because the county takes recordation of the maintenance map so as to
convey the county’s interest to the District.
I disagree because it is not recognized as an instrument of conveyance
of any deed under the Florida Statutes.
For a conveyance of title, I do not think it is sufficient but the
county Engineering Department says so.
Mr.
Craven stated when I spoke to them, they told me it was under a state statute
for the welfare of the public and they can take it and do whatever they want. Whether or not it is legal or illegal, the
map exists. I do not know whether it is
legal.
Mr.
Rosenof asked how do the residents prove this canal is on their property in
order to obtain title insurance?
Mr.
Doody responded I assume they are tracing the title from the grantor.
Mr.
Rosenof asked who is the grantor?
Mr.
Doody responded the immediate seller.
Title Insurance only goes back to 1970.
Someone insured it and now they are picking up the insurance. When you issue a title insurance policy
today, you only go back to the existing policy.
For example, if you own a house for two years and sell it and I am
representing the buyer, I am going to obtain a title policy updating the title insurance
from the last 10 years. They do not go
to the root of the title any longer.
Mr.
Rosenof asked for my own curiosity, what happens if the county decides one day
it is their canal and wants to erect a wall on the other side?
Mr.
Doody responded the title company is going to have to step in to make a claim.
Mr.
Rosenof stated they are going to say it is a faulty title.
Mr.
Doody stated they have an issue. When I
first started practicing, we did abstracts of title. This is not done anymore. Now you obtain computer reports. There is the potential of a title claim.
Mr.
Craven stated in my opinion, this has the potential for being a major problem
because everything from the south flows through four culverts, crosses under
the Sawgrass Expressway to our only outlet.
South of the Sawgrass Expressway, the areas are well documented and we
have flowage rights and limited access from a standpoint of the bank but we also
have access to all water bodies. All
maintenance is done by Aquatic Spraying.
Whispering Woods has their own internal system and we do not have any
maintenance responsibilities to any of those waters. The collector canal is also a major problem.
Mr.
Rosenof asked in what regard?
Mr.
Craven responded the right to use it and gain access to maintain if and when we
have a catastrophic event. The south
side has been taken care of with the installation of the wall on the Sawgrass
Expressway. The north side is up in the
air.
Ms.
Bertolami stated the banks are steep there.
Mr.
Brewer asked do we need to look at the canal on the north side of the Sawgrass
Expressway, which is the south side of Pine Tree Estates, and address the issue
with the “maintenance map”?
Mr.
Craven responded it is not my decision.
Mr.
Brewer stated I know it is the Board’s decision but you are saying we do not
have access.
Mr.
Craven stated we have the maintenance map, whether good, bad or indifferent.
Mr.
Petty stated there is a table next to the map where we listed logical steps to
take on this issue. The first step is to
obtain the history and the engineer’s opinion on arterial drainage
concerns. The next step is acquiring the
proper instruments so we can perform the intended function of flood control,
which we intend to have as a workshop discussion. Our engineer is talking about getting access
and having the right to work within these areas. This will fall under an acquisition program
we may bring before the Board.
Mr.
Craven stated the first thing we need to do is survey the right-of-way because
we do not have an accurate location of where the canal is. It needs to be physically located. Once this is done, we will have a basis for
making a decision on whether access to these roads is adequate.
Mr.
Rosenof asked by an easement from the property owner?
Mr.
Craven responded yes.
Mr.
Rosenof stated it does not need to be an acquisition per se.
Mr.
Craven stated we are going to have a substandard facility no matter what. There is no proposal, at least not in my
mind, to acquire the right-of-way or expand the facility.
Mr.
Brewer asked is the canal adequate or does it need to be expanded?
Mr.
Petty responded from discussions after the hurricane, there was no concern
about the flowway. The concern was
strictly on maintenance, lake bank issues and future storm events regarding
what maintenance we could or could not do and the difficulty therein. The acquisition is not for acquiring vast
areas of land. It is for getting title
of the easement or whatever mechanism is deemed appropriate. Before asking the Board for any action, we
intend on defining the scope of these items so when you make your decision, you
have all the materials you need.
Mr.
Rosenof stated remind us what we are trying to do here and what our goal is at
the end of the day.
Mr.
Craven stated to keep people from drowning.
Mr.
Petty stated the direction I received from the Board is to support the District
in fulfilling its obligation, which is flood control. This directive was given to us by the county
and we need to work with them. Our District
Counsel will find out what mechanisms are required. However, this is our issue. As the residents become aware of us and
problems surface, the Board may consider other responsibilities but currently
we are looking to substantiate our system so we can provide flood control
reliably. One of the reasons for doing
this exercise was to see if there were any grants for federal money.
Mr.
Petty stated during storm events, the issue came up of ownership being a
requirement for having a right of access to be refunded to whatever level was
allowed during the storm event. We were
able to do this but it took awhile due to Hurricane Wilma.
Mr.
Rosenof asked what is the next step?
Mr.
Petty responded certainly the history will be an ongoing element, which we will
discuss during the workshops. At the
next workshop we hope to discuss the acquisition process. We will ask District Counsel to discuss what
they encountered in dealing with Broward County to obtain proper title or
easements and highlight those areas District Counsel believes is a priority.
Mr.
Rosenof asked did Mr. Craven say we need to perform a physical survey?
Mr.
Petty responded he suggested specific parts of the program to start on first. However, you need to look at this in its
entirety, not just what the engineer needs to do but also what District Counsel
needs to do, what operations and maintenance needs to do and what
administrative is going to need as well.
Mr.
Rosenof asked do you suggest performing the survey now?
Mr.
Petty responded it will not hurt us to do it now. This is something we need regardless of
whether or not we move forward. However,
we want to give you all the information before you get too far into the program
so you know the depth.
Mr.
Craven stated the primary concern, in my opinion, is to verify and maintain
those two facilities along with the Sawgrass Expressway outfall canal.
Mr.
Rosenof asked how do we currently gain access?
Mr.
Craven responded we go down to the end of the road and put a boat in the water.
Mr.
Rosenof stated we own to the middle of the street.
Mr.
Brewer stated we need to get this maintenance map to go away. The City of
Mr.
Craven stated the City of
Mr.
Brewer stated this matter came about when we tried to plant something against
the Sawgrass Expressway.
Mr.
Craven stated this matter has been discussed by this Board for the last seven
years.
Mr.
Brewer stated the county expressed to me in conversations they will give the
property to the District. However, at
what point in time, do we say, “We take it only for the sole purpose of
abolishment?” They claim they do not
even own it.
Mr.
Doody responded if this is the case; get the county to issue a Quit Claim Deed
to the District on the property identified on the map. Then you eliminate the title issue. You own whatever interest the county had and
I do not think anyone else could have interest.
Mr.
Rosenof asked what happens if a neighbor’s plat goes into the canal?
Mr.
Brewer responded you are going to have to come back and do an easement.
Mr.
Rosenof stated some are going to be easements and some are going to be
ownerships.
Mr.
Brewer stated if you survey the area, you will find houses on the right-of-way
line. The county does not call it an
easement. They think it is a taking.
Mr.
Craven stated in all probability it is advisable to get an easement on
everything we need and disregard the maintenance map entirely.
Mr.
Brewer stated correct. We need to get
this map to go away.
Mr.
Rosenof asked why?
Mr.
Brewer responded because if you go down there tomorrow to do something on your
house, they can throw this map in front of you and say, “You cannot put your
fence there because you do not own it”.
The county takes the stance this map exists. We may not agree with them.
Mr.
Rosenof stated if it exists, they think in certain instances, it conveys title. This is where we disagree.
Mr.
Brewer stated exactly.
Mr.
Rosenof asked do you think it is accurate?
Mr.
Brewer responded yes. An old road used
to run through there but they took it for the main purpose of the Sawgrass
Expressway. If you went out there tomorrow
and laid the map out, there are probably houses in the right-of-way line.
Mr.
Rosenof asked is there a happy ending?
Mr.
Petty responded I think so. What you are
hearing today is the intent is solid for Pine Tree to provide flood control for
this area. Broward County turned it over
to Pine Tree and we still have a process to complete. Exactly what this process is going to take
the shape of, is yet to be determined. District
Counsel already knows what we can do initially but when it gets to each
homeowner who may or may not be within the right-of-way line, we are probably
going to have to take those one at a time.
Mr.
Brewer stated in several different meetings with the county in the last few
years, their attitude is they gave us everything within the Pine Tree WCD and they
do not want anything to do with whatever is in this District. Whether or not they did it legally or
illegally, by title has not been completed.
Their attitude is, “This belongs to Pine Tree, we gave it to the
District and the District can have it.”
Mr.
Rosenof stated I do not disagree this is their attitude.
Mr.
Brewer stated how we need to get it to come over so we feel comfortable
accepting it, is an issue. We need to
move in that direction.
Mr.
Doody stated the county can say whatever they want but when we get into the
issue raised by the President as to a private owner asserting an interest, therein
lies the legal technicalities. We are
going to be the ones having to assert this interest. Our reliance is going to be on the
maintenance map. I am uncomfortable from
a legal perspective to assert the District’s interest.
Mr.
Brewer stated the problem I always had dealing with the map issue is the county
saying, “Tell your client to sue us”.
How can one person sue Broward County over 10’ of property? The guy cannot afford to sue Broward County
over just one piece. It needs to be
resolved for the purpose of the entire District.
Mr.
Doody stated I think the county in this instance will cooperate with the
District.
Mr.
Brewer stated I agree. I think they want
to see this go away.
THIRD ORDER OF BUSINESS Other Business
There
not being any, the next item followed.
FOURTH ORDER OF BUSINESS Adjournment
There
being no further business,
On MOTION by Mr. Rosenof seconded by Mr. Brewer with all in
favor the meeting was adjourned.
Paul
Brewer David
Rosenof
Secretary President