MINUTES
OF MEETING
PINE
TREE WATER CONTROL DISTRICT
A
meeting of the Board of Supervisors of the Pine Tree Water Control District was
held on Thursday, February 3, 2011 at 6:00 p.m. at the Parkland City Hall, 6600
North University Drive, Parkland, Florida.
Present and constituting a quorum were:
Paul Brewer President
Mark Weissman Vice President
Donna McCann Benckenstein Assistant Secretary
Donald Eckler Assistant Secretary
Neil Study Supervisor
Also present were:
Kenneth Cassel Manager
Annabella Barboza Attorney
Warren Craven, Jr. Engineer
Randy
Frederick Drainage
Supervisor
FIRST ORDER OF
BUSINESS Roll
Call
Mr. Cassel called the meeting to order and called
the roll.
SECOND
ORDER OF BUSINESS Approval
of the Minutes of the November 4, 2010 Meeting
Mr.
Cassel stated each Board member received a copy of the minutes of the November
4, 2010 meeting and requested any changes, additions or deletions.
There
not being any,
On MOTION by Mr. Weissman seconded by Ms. Benckenstein
with all in favor the minutes of the November 4, 2010 meeting were approved.
THIRD
ORDER OF BUSINESS Consideration
of Bids for Culvert Inspections
Mr.
Cassel stated we went out for bids for culvert inspections. We teamed up on the bid advertising with CSID
in order to cut costs. We need to have
the culverts inspected to see which ones are to the point where they need to be
cleaned out. Industrial Divers
Corporation came in as the lowest bid to inspect all of the culverts. Part of the deal is they are not only going
to tell us the debris that is in the culvert, but also where it is located in
the culvert, the type of debris, size of pipe, type of material of pipe as well
as verifying the length of pipe for us so that we can update what Mr. Craven
already and cross reference. This will
allow us to know exactly what our infrastructure is. From this we will look at which pipes need to
be cleaned and we will go out for a second bid to have somebody come out and
clean them.
Mr.
Weissman asked do we have a prior history with the bidders? Do we know of anyone who has used them before
or any references we checked?
Mr.
Cassel responded yes. Industrial Divers
Corporation and Fish Tec have done extensive work for PTWCD, CSID and
NSID. Have you worked with Working
Divers, Inc. Mr. Frederick?
Mr.
Frederick responded no.
Mr.
Weissman stated I noticed Fish Tec did the examination on the banks. Was that something we bid out?
Mr.
Cassel responded no. We needed to do
that quickly and he came in at a decent number for us.
Mr.
Weissman stated I noticed his price here was almost triple to Industrial Divers
Corporation.
Mr.
Cassel stated if you go back in the records, you will find Industrial Divers
Corporation was triple to Fish Tec some years ago.
Mr.
Frederick stated there is a battle going on between those two to get these
districts here.
Mr.
Weissman stated it is not a small difference.
Mr.
Study stated it is a huge spread from $5,000 to $22,000.
Mr.
Frederick stated Industrial Divers Corporation has gotten beaten out over the
last few years in jobs within the other districts. He wanted to make sure he got this one.
On MOTION by Mr. Weissman seconded by Mr. Study with
all in favor the bid for culvert cleaning was awarded to Industrial Divers Corporation
in the amount of $4,900.
FOURTH ORDER OF
BUSINESS Audience
Comments
There
not being any, the next item followed.
FIFTH ORDER OF
BUSINESS Manager’s
Report
§ Discussion
of Bank Issues – Hidden Lakes
Mr.
Weissman asked what was the cost?
Mr.
Frederick responded he has not billed us.
Mr.
Cassel asked he was there about half of a day; is that correct?
Mr.
Frederick responded he was here the whole day.
I asked him about billing me and he said he got this bid so he was not
going to bill me for that service, but he did not get the bid. I still have not received a bill for the
service.
Mr.
Cassel stated we had the initial issue with the bank last year. We went out and looked at it. We did some surface type repairs thinking the
underlying was not necessarily that bad.
We did it with our own people so it did not cost us anything. The bank in another section dropped and
cracked. We have something going on
underneath. This is why we brought out
Fish Tec to check it to see what is going on.
It looks like there is a hollow spot underneath the rock. We are not sure why. It could be an old hollow spot which was
there forever. It could be some sand
underneath drifted into the lake. It
could be a number of issues.
There
is some additional work we need to do to figure out how we are going to fix
it. Mr. Frederick mentioned that some
more has cracked in the last couple of days.
We need to make sure the bank is a safe bank because we have a lot of
kids going to school who walk down the sidewalk. You do not want too steep of a bank there. We are going to have to bring in Dunkelberger
as a geotech. We may need to do a boring
to make sure of what we have as far as soil.
It
is very steep according to Fish Tech. We
are going to have Industrial Divers do some double checking and extra sampling
with Dunkelberger in specific spots when he is out here diving the other part
to make sure we can come up with a fix that is reasonable, rational and the
least expensive fix we can come up with that will last the District. We do not want to have it keep doing
something and have to go repair it every six months.
Mr.
Brewer stated Mr. Craven, take a look at that thing they are doing in Sunrise
on the cave in.
Mr.
Craven stated I was actually talking to the contractor who was doing that. I personally do not think what they are doing
is going to work. Their situation is
much worse then ours. I suggested to Mr.
Cassel that we get a geotech involved.
It is pretty much impossible to get a drill rig right up next to the
lake. I propose we get a sampling as
close as we can, off the road on the flat area before you get to the
sidewalk. It should give us the same
basic profile of the soil. I think we
all suspect the same thing. We had a
layer of soft lime rock with a layer of sandy material under it which has
washed out over the years. I think we
need to get that boring done and I suggested we have the geotechs since we are
going to have the divers in the pipes.
While they are there with the pipes, we can get the geotech out there
with him and if he needs any additional vat to what we already have we can make
sure we pick it up at that time so we are not incurring an additional cost.
Once
we have all the facts we can come up with the fix. The simplest solution is we find that we have
a couple of more cavities, we accelerate them breaking off and rebuild the
slope, or we are going to have to put some kind of retaining wall in there. The report we received indicates that after
we get past the bank the deep cut line is very steep. We do not want the whole bank to collapse.
Mr.
Study asked how much was the original effort?
Mr.
Cassel responded it had broken down. We
had gone in there with our crews and put weight on it to see if anything else
would break. We went in there and filled
it to stabilize it. It was a couple of
truckloads of fill and then sod on top of it.
Mr.
Study stated I would say the slope is seven to one.
Mr.
Craven stated as a point of reference, these lakes were dug prior to SFWMD requiring
the eight foot safety shelf. Unfortunately,
we do not have the benefit of that extra area there.
Mr.
Study stated when geotech goes out; we need a little more profiling. It is necessary in order for us to really know
volumes. Unfortunately I did Meacon’s
Lake and Gateway Lake, both of which exceeded 45 feet. We had success with rubble, fill and then a
protective berm. We actually put our
dozers on the seven foot banking slope.
Mr.
Craven stated I agree this does not show us everything we need. We need a more detailed cross section where
we can see any kind of cavity which has come up. This gives us a start, but we need more
detailed information.
Mr.
Study stated we really need the depth and the material which is there as well
as where hardness is. Some of the spots
I have found in South Florida are 7 to 15 feet of silt, sludge and product from
dredging. It would not surprise me if
this is really soft bottom, but if you get enough loads as you are in that
procedure, you can master it.
Mr.
Craven stated they really did not draw out the section. From what we see here; 20 feet is the deepest
they went. I do not know if those 20
feet hit the bottom or if it is just the deepest they went. I need to see bottom and what our slope is
there. With the boring we will be able
to analyze the material. We obviously
want to go in deep with our boring so we can see the slope all the way down. I just think we need to get more information
before we can come to you with a repair.
Mr.
Eckler asked if you find, when you have the geotech out there, soft spots or
voids or what not, will we need to do other ones in order to find the extent of
it so we know how much more bank may be in jeopardy?
Mr.
Craven responded yes.
Mr.
Eckler stated if we are diving, if it happens to be there are other layers
further down which have washed out, we should probably know where those are if
you can see them from the sides. I do
not know how visible it may be or may not be.
Mr.
Cassel asked when the man dove, did he go down and check for other spots?
Mr.
Frederick responded yes.
Mr.
Cassel stated and the only thing was that 52 foot wide section he found.
Mr.
Frederick stated he said it was a pretty steep drop off also. It is almost a straight drop off.
Mr.
Eckler asked what is the hardness of that rock and how stable can we expect it
to be?
Mr.
Craven responded this is why I would like to get the boring done first before
we put the divers in again. The geotech
can direct him on what to look for. I
excavated some lakes just east of there and the rock was not very hard at all. Once you got through it, we used the pan to
excavate the rest of the lake. It was
sandy material. I think what we are
dealing with is a very soft layer of lime rock with sand or fragmented lime
rock underneath.
Mr.
Study stated this could present other problems so we might as well do a decent
investigation now so that if in the future anything else happens, lake bound,
in this particular area, we are apprised of it.
Mr.
Craven stated if you look at the entire lake, the slopes coming off the lots
are much flatter than the slope up against the road. I would say we would probably be close to a
five to one slope coming off the backs of the lots. I am sure once you get to that deep cut line
it is doing the same thing.
Mr.
Study stated I am sure that road was an after thought as they were leaving the
site.
Mr.
Craven stated probably.
Mr.
Study stated I would surmise that is not virgin.
Mr.
Craven stated I see we have a member of the audience. Can you state your name?
Mr.
Fogarty stated I am a Mike Fogarty, a resident right next door, just to the
west of the failure. I have some
photographs. I am in land
development. I am not nervous about
it. It happens. I have been just trying to be a middleman, a
link to the HOA. There are a lot of kids
playing around it and it has been a year now.
I just wanted to make myself known and available because I know access
to there is limited. Was there a report
done by Fish Tech?
Mr.
Cassel responded yes. We had them do a
dive of it. We have some of the things
identified, but in order to do a thorough analysis we are going to have to do a
boring. We have another crew coming in
to inspect the drain culverts.
Mr.
Fogarty asked are they doing a boring or a penetration?
Mr.
Craven responded we will do split pins so we can take samples of each layer.
Mr.
Fogarty stated you might want to do some penetrations about every 15 feet along
that whole thing; like 30 or 40 feet.
Mr.
Craven stated the problem we have is access to get close enough to the
lake. We cannot get the drill rig that
close to the lake due to the steepness and the limited access. We are going to do some borings as close as
we can get and look at the soil. We
engaged Dunkelberger Engineering and Testing to do that.
Mr.
Study asked does the HOA have any records concerning that lake and project that
you have in hand?
Mr.
Fogarty asked with regard to the history of the failure?
Mr.
Study responded no. In regards to site
survey and typographical information on the lake.
Mr.
Craven stated when it was originally done.
Mr.
Fogarty stated I can ask.
Mr.
Craven stated I have not been able to find anything.
Mr.
Study stated they may have it.
Mr.
Fogarty stated we still had to provide lake cross sections to the District.
Mr.
Craven stated at that point the safety shelf was not a requirement. SFWMD did not require that at the time and
the District might not have been in existence then.
Mr.
Cassel asked do we know who the engineer was for the project?
Mr.
Study asked do we know who the contractor was?
Mr.
Fogarty asked the developer?
Mr.
Study responded yes.
Mr.
Fogarty stated I can look into that.
Mr.
Study stated you may have a record of who did the excavation.
Mr.
Craven stated that is one of the older parts of the development. The area to the east of there came later and
we started developing the Coral Creek properties in the 1980’s. This goes back a ways.
Mr.
Study asked how many years do you think?
Mr.
Craven responded late 1970’s or early 1980’s.
I can go to the city and search some records to see what I can
find. If the HOA has anything, it will
help. We certainly will appreciate it.
Mr.
Study stated I also may have some aerials if I go in my archives.
Mr.
Craven stated when we were researching the area along the Sawgrass Expressway
we went to the county and they have the county aerials going back to the
1950’s. We can find out exactly when it
was dug and if we can narrow down who the possible engineers or contractors
were, it might help. When you get
something which is 30 going on 40 years old, things have a bad habit of
disappearing.
Mr.
Study stated obviously the digging technique will be helpful because we will
understand whether they sucked or dug. Cypress
Head was dredged.
Mr.
Craven stated I doubt if anything in there was dredged. I think it was just dug down to the second
layer of rock and they stopped because that is how everything else to the east
of there was done.
Mr.
Cassel stated we will proceed with the geotech person and check out additional
diving information to come up with a response on what we can do with it.
Mr.
Study asked can I be called when the divers are there?
Mr.
Cassel responded yes.
Mr.
Study stated thank you.
SIXTH ORDER OF
BUSINESS Attorney’s
Report
Ms.
Barboza stated I wanted to report to the Board that the Board of County
Commissioners of Broward County authorized, last year in December, the
conveyance of the maintenance map property to the District. We received a copy of the recorded deed today
so it is finalized.
Mr.
Cassel stated this means Mr. Craven can do the rest of his job to do the DOT
swap.
SEVENTH ORDER OF BUSINESS Engineer’s
Report
Mr. Cassel asked you have anything else?
Mr.
Craven responded no. We just found out
when we came to the meeting that we have the recorded deed. We can start moving forward with DOT on
swapping the land north of the Sawgrass Expressway. We will jump back on this and hopefully come
back to the next meeting with a tentative proposal on how we are going to swap
the land.
Mr.
Study asked 441 DOT?
Mr.
Craven responded I talked with Cocomar.
They are pursuing it because they also have an interest in it. I meant to follow up with him before the
meeting and did not have a chance to. I
will talk to him next week and I will let Mr. Cassel know what we found.
Mr.
Study asked are we keeping the owner who requested that one lot apprised of the
process?
Mr.
Cassel responded I have not been in touch with him over the past couple of
months, but I will let him know we finally got the deed so we will be moving
forward. I will contact him.
EIGHTH ORDER OF
BUSINESS Supervisors’
Requests
There not being any, the next item followed.
NINTH
ORDER OF BUSINESS Approval
of Financials and Check Registers
The
Board reviewed the financials.
On MOTION by Mr. Weissman seconded by Ms.
Benckenstein with all in favor the financials were approved.
TENTH ORDER OF
BUSINESS Adjournment
There being no further business,
On MOTION by Ms. Benckenstein seconded by Mr.
Weissman with all in favor the meeting was adjourned.
Kenneth
Cassel Paul
Brewer
Assistant
Secretary President