-MINUTES
OF MEETING
CORAL
SPRINGS
IMPROVEMENT
DISTRICT
The regular meeting of the
Board of Supervisors of the Coral Springs Improvement District was held on
Present and constituting a quorum
were:
Bob Fennell President
Glen Hanks Secretary
Also present were:
Doug Hyche District Staff
Jean Rugg
Janice Moen Larned
Randy Frederick
Dennis Lyles Attorney
John McKune Engineer
Mr.
Fennell called the meeting to order and Mr. Petty called the roll.
SECOND ORDER OF BUSINESS Approval of the Minutes of
the February 27, 2006 Meeting
Mr. Fennell stated each Board member
received a copy of the
Mr. Fennell stated on page 17, in
the second paragraph, the sentence “frankly I would not want to put my hands
into someone else’s” should be “frankly I would not want to put my fate into
someone else’s hands”.
On MOTION by Mr. Fennell seconded by Mr.
Hanks with all in favor the minutes of the
THIRD
ORDER OF BUSINESS Hurricane
Debris Removal and Canal Bank Restoration Status
Mr. Petty stated Mr. McKune is
handling the contract administration. We
brought some pictures to show you the construction in progress. We are recording the progression of this work
for posterity in case there is an audit by the federal government. The equipment they are using is unique. When they first put their equipment in the
water, it seemed to take them a considerable amount of time to clear a canal
but their speed increased exponentially as they got into a rhythm and now they
are proceeding rather quickly. Mr.
McKune brought a map where the blue lines signify the status of canals they
have already been in where the majority of debris has been removed. On every canal, there is always something
that still has to be addressed, whether it be the
removal of trees, a couple of stumps or some sod work.
Mr. Fennell asked does the blue line
indicate what has been done?
Mr. Petty responded that is where he
has the barge for cleanup on the canals.
The majority of trees have been removed from the waterway. He may still have some stump and sod work
left to do.
Mr. McKune stated green represents
the entire District divided into sections for which we received additional
estimates.
Mr. Fennell stated I saw them
working on the University side today. I
do not know how they work on the barge when it is whipping back and forth
across the canal.
Mr. Petty stated it creates waves
200 feet downstream.
Mr. Fennell stated I wonder how it
stays afloat.
Mr. McKune stated you should see how
they move down the canal.
Mr. Petty stated they go in a
straight line. I would be bouncing off
the banks.
Mr. Fennell stated there is no way
any pipes will survive when the barge goes through.
Mr. Petty stated when the trees came
down a lot of the pipes got pulled out.
They will not be able to be repaired until we get the debris out of the
way. We are putting out door hangers
advising the residents. If we created
the damage, we repaired it because they were not given notice but everyone will
be given notice. The contractor is using
a mid-size backhoe with a sheer lobster claw attachment to cut trees 24 inches
in diameter and pick them up rather quickly.
There have been observations by staff of some inconsistencies in the
contract. He needs to provide fill
material in one or two places. I think
Mr. McKune spoke to him about the sod work and getting it in within a
reasonable timeframe. He was using some
mulch material, which at first we had some concerns that he was going to try to
backfill with his own mulch from his facility.
It turns out he was using the mulch for a seed bed. We did not call for it in our contract, but
he has free mulch so he is throwing it down.
Mr. McKune stated he already has sod
down along the south bank behind the club.
Mr. Hanks asked what are your
thoughts on the dry cycle? Are the plants drought resistant?
Mr. McKune responded he is going to
continue watering them. He has a small
pump and a small boat and speeds up and down the canal. It will not be a problem.
Mr. Fennell stated I was concerned
about the individual homeowners and how perhaps they had not been maintaining
their property, but what I really saw was commercial interest who may be more
at fault than the homeowners. The
homeowners behind Sam’s Club decided they were not going to bother with those
trees back there and that is a good thing because this was a nice screen for
them and they really did not want it removed.
Mr. Petty stated I think there are
two categories one is like Sam’s Club where they put up a wall and whatever is
on the other side they never touch again.
Then there is the canal behind the party center and Burger King on
University heading north. They have a
wall behind their unit where there are buffer trees that were probably required
by the city. These are 15 to 20 year old
trees. They mow this area and trim the
trees. So you have places like Sam’s
Club where the homeowners in back do not maintain up to their wall and then
there are owners who put up a buffer, probably required by the city and
maintain it through their landscaper. A
third area is behind the Coral Springs Auto Mall, which is jungle. There are no buffer trees. We are going to talk about what our policy is
going to be about trees later on in the agenda and it probably would be best to
talk about this matter at that time.
Mr. Fennell stated there is more
than one case. We are still spending a
lot of CSID’s money on maintenance issues. They did not do the job they should have.
Mr. Frederick stated unfortunately
in a lot of these areas the trees were there before construction and before
there was a city policy. These trees
were supposed to be removed before any building was done on that particular
piece of property.
Mr. Petty stated if it is not on
their property, there is no way you can force them to take it down. It could have been behind Sam’s Club if the
property line is where the wall is and the rest is ours. The city could not force them to come onto
our property and cut the trees when they bought their parcel. We can go more into this matter later.
Mr. Hanks asked are we having any
water quality changes in the canal we should be worried about?
Mr. Petty responded I would not say
water quality other than turbidity. We
have turbidity screening required in the contract and he is maintaining it but
we are stirring things up.
Mr. Frederick stated it clears up
pretty fast. I have seen this in many
places where there is a lot of turbidity and it takes a while to clear up. There are many floating little sticks and
branches, which we will have to fish out.
Mr. Hanks asked how can you tell
whether or not the contractor is on schedule?
Mr. McKune responded the contractor
has 120 days to complete the contract.
They are moving fairly quickly.
The largest area has been completed.
Mr. Fennell stated I thought the
contractor had 100 days to complete.
Mr. Petty stated we gave them 100
days but not much was damaged or had trees falling on them. This is the area
that had bank erosion or fallen trees.
Mr. Fennell stated I am happy they are
making progress but I do not know how to judge it. I do not know if this is going to be enough
time.
Mr. Petty stated we think they are
within their schedule and are optimistic they will be ahead of schedule based
on our observations.
Mr. Fennell asked do they have a schedule?
Mr. Petty responded yes, to complete
the job in 150 days.
Mr. Fennell asked do they have
something broken down into timeframes?
Mr. Petty responded no, it is rhythm
oriented. If we break this rhythm we
cause time delays. If we aid their
rhythm, which is what we started to do, they move more quickly.
Mr. McKune stated he has 10 days to
give us a formal schedule.
Mr. Fennell asked is there a formal
schedule?
Mr. McKune responded it is
required. Right now he is trying to feel
his way around. He has other crews he
could bring in.
Mr. Fennell asked when you receive a
formal schedule, would you give each Board member one?
Mr. Frederick responded sure.
Mr. Fennell stated by the way, the
city did sort of hint if we really needed to use their area, they would be
cooperative.
Mr. Petty asked are you referring to
the regional park?
Mr. Fennell responded the area they
do their mulching.
Mr. Petty stated it was nice of them
to offer. We are not going to be
mulching but it is nice to know it is there.
Mr. Fennell stated I was watching
them size up the trees.
Mr. Frederick stated he cuts them
the length of the barge. If a tree is
too large, he cannot get through the canal.
FOURTH
ORDER OF BUSINESS Report
from Mr. Fennell on District Accounting Procedures
Ms. Larned stated the field work is
completed and in talking with Mr. Eissler, there are
two items he is still waiting on but he is working on the comparisons. There should be a draft report coming in the
next couple of weeks.
Mr. Fennell asked are there any
issues as far as the amount of effort to get this done? Are we able to comply?
Mr. Petty responded there are no
road blocks at all.
Ms. Larned stated there is more of a
contention on their part with all of the other tax work going on.
Mr. Fennell asked do we have someone
helping out from Severn Trent?
Mr. Petty responded yes. We are trying to keep this going as long as
it is helpful.
Mr. Fennell asked are we paying for that?
Mr. Petty responded we are doing it
under the existing contract at no additional charge.
FIFTH ORDER OF
BUSINESS Discussion
Items
A. Two-Way Radios to Facilitate
Communication
Mr. Hyche stated we are out for
bids. We will receive the bids on the 23rd.
Mr. Fennell asked did we receive any
good responses?
Mr. Hyche responded we had a
mandatory pre-bid meeting and four responded.
Mr. Hanks asked for the radios?
Mr. Hyche responded yes.
Mr. Petty stated we have satellite
phones on order or will be on order next Thursday.
Mr. Fennell stated you mentioned we
were having problems with the phone connections in here. Mr. Eissler tried
to call in and had a hard time getting through.
On the other hand you are saying we have 100 phone lines but some of
them need to be repaired. Do we have
BellSouth?
Mr. Petty responded yes.
Mr. Fennell stated you can have them
come in and do an analysis of our lines.
Mr. Petty stated we already had them
do an analysis. Mr. Dan Daly has been
working with Bellsouth and we actually have a plan in place that we will
provide to the Board later on when we do the budgets. At that time, we bring the system back from
the other building to here and make this system independent. Some of our staff floats from here to another
office and the computer actually running our phone system sits in another
building. We are trying to bring that
system back. Severn Trent has been taking
their employees off and Ms. Jean Rugg’s group, who
were part of the move, adopted a new phone system Severn Trent has in that
building and we can now take this system and bring it back. Mr. Daly has been working with Bellsouth on
what would be necessary to improve our telephone system and upgrade the
hardware in order to bring the computer system back. We would be glad to bring this to the Board
at the next meeting.
Mr. Fennell asked can you
communicate with the lift stations and pump stations?
Mr. Petty responded we are still
working on that. We love the concept but
the practicality is I have not seen a working system of any value to me
yet. But, aside from that, SKADA makes
sense. I would like the operator to look
at the meter for leaks and signs of damage or loss. The same thing goes when you turn on some of
these pieces of equipment. I want you to
feel the vibrations, hear the noise and see how a bearing gets hot. We have SKADA throughout our utility system
and well fields.
Mr. Fennell asked what is SKADA?
Mr. Petty responded data acquisition
and control. We have some on/off
functionality and basic commands but do not have any routines built into our
system. We have gone through two or
three attempts at trying to do computerized control (i.e. we do not need
operators, just one guy to program it and it will run). It has not worked so far and my personal
opinion is not very high of that system.
I have not seen one run a utility but certainly you can use it turn
equipment on and off.
Mr. Fennell stated you can run a
phone line or use RF. I do not know
whether the phone system is any cheaper.
In some ways the RF systems are expensive to install; at least $2,000 to
$5,000.
Mr. Petty stated we have both types
of systems. Using the old method, we
were able to keep the system functional better than anyone else. I like the idea of having as much as I can
out there but after awhile the value of the dollar spent does not give you the
same return.
Mr. Fennell stated if you are going
to look at phone systems, this might be a good time to see if there are any
other phone systems out there for the money.
Mr. Petty stated Mr. Hyche addressed
this item at the last meeting, however Mr. McKune and I wanted to hold off
because this is the first time we have heard of it. Mr. Hyche was saying “I do not need radios or
telephones, just give me a skid mounted generator I can keep in the warehouse
and when the power goes out, I am going to put it in the lift station and it is
going to run off the floats”.
Mr. Fennell stated this might just
be the thing to do.
B. Portable
Generators
Mr. Fennell asked did you go out for
bids?
Mr. Hyche responded I was given the
approval to go out for bids today.
Mr. Fennell asked are we going to
get eight or ten generators?
Mr. Hyche responded ten 20 KW skid
mounted generators.
Mr. Hanks asked is this sufficient
to operate the pumps?
Mr. Hyche responded yes.
Mr. Hanks asked how big are they?
Mr. Hyche responded you can haul
three of them in a pick-up truck.
Mr. Petty stated we have one of
those hydraulic lift mechanisms for our pumps.
Mr. Hanks asked what size pumps do
you currently have?
Mr. Hyche responded 40 horsepower,
some are 10 horsepower.
Mr. Hanks asked do you prefer
kilowatt or horsepower?
Mr. Petty stated if you try to start
both of them at the same time you can trip a line. You have to do them one at a time. What this means for us is when we first
install them, there may be a period in the first day where there is going to
have to be someone standing next to these pumps in order to keep the second
pump off until we drop the level down.
Mr. Hyche stated we also have three
portables that we will be shuffling around.
Mr. Petty stated they made the
system work with one pump last time.
This time they have three generators plus 10 fixed stations. This will give us the ability to sit back
here to work on this utility site versus running around out in the field.
Mr. Fennell stated last year at this
time, we ordered two additional pumps.
However when we needed them, they were in Pompano getting painted and we
could not get a hold of them.
Mr. Petty stated they look
great. They are painted just like the
trucks.
Mr. Hanks asked is
our manpower sufficient to handle the trees, truck trailer, generators and
these skids?
Mr. Hyche responded yes. I talked this over with the staff and this is
the way they would like to go. They
could handle it more efficiently with those 10 generators and those three
portable ones than with one portable.
Mr. Fennell asked what is not to
prevent my neighbor who also has a pick-up truck from steeling a generator?
Mr. Hyche responded we have to buy
some chains. The city had some
generators missing, but they were not chained and locked down. We will also have a 24 hour watch on them.
Mr. Fennell asked what are you going
to chain them to?
Mr. Hyche responded the lift
station.
Mr. Petty stated we can chain it to
something heavy enough they cannot haul off.
Mr. Hanks stated I was making a
presentation the other day when one of our student commissioners mentioned the
city had a retainer agreement with a rental company for generators.
Mr. Petty stated you are relying on
them to be there after the hurricane. We
could not find anyone to get our generators.
This is a good idea to have as a back-up
Mr. Hyche stated only if they match
our connections and have the right power.
Mr. Petty stated you never can do
better than having the generators on-site.
Mr. Hanks stated I am just trying to
think of different ways to use the $100,000 we are spending on the
generators. Hopefully we will never need
to use them.
Mr. Fennell stated I think you
will. We have occasional power outages
throughout the area. How many lift
stations do we have?
Mr. Hyche responded 22.
Mr. Petty stated we are a force main
system.
Mr. Hanks asked is
there a way to do a joint purchase with another utility?
Mr. Petty responded we belong to
several different groups where basically you will respond with back loads,
front end loaders and generators during an emergency. I said to Mr. Hyche, “if we get these 10
generators and they have a problem up in
Mr. Hanks asked does it not make
sense to stagger the purchase of them so we are not purchasing them all at the
same time or buy them in quantities?
Mr. Hyche responded it would if we
bid them that way.
Mr. Petty stated we are going to bid
them and get a price to you for your consideration. I wanted to get you a real number, not just a
merchandise catalog number.
Mr. Fennell stated I think the
electricity being out caused more economic problems than anything else as far
as lost wages. We could not pump gas or
do anything. No one evacuated, which I
frankly think you cannot evacuate
Mr. Hyche responded we can tie it
into the new system.
Mr. Fennell stated it is a good
suggestion. I know there are companies
who specialize in this who can provide generators by a certain time and
day. Are we in trouble after 12 hours?
Mr. Petty responded with lift
stations you can be in trouble in as short as four hours. If we have a rain event of five inches or
more, it can be within an hour because we have an infiltration issue. If the water table and the pressure increase
our lift stations could go bad real fast.
The residents here in
Mr. Hanks asked do we have anyone
maintaining a response unit in the state?
Mr. Fennell responded each state out
west has something like that. I think we
signed some type of agreement to cooperate with other areas. You need to have a preplanned policy for what
generator we would need, who would go and exactly what kind of response we
would have so we know exactly what we do in this situation. Let’s go forward with that, because I believe
we need to cooperate. You are right; we
need to think about what we need ourselves, especially in the middle of the
hurricane season.
SIXTH
ORDER OF BUSINESS Consideration
of Work Authorization No. WA-29 for the
Non-Hurricane Water Management System Vegetation Removal
Mr. Petty stated this is for the
engineer to evaluate the scope of our proposed tree management program as
preventive maintenance for a hurricane.
Mr. Fennell asked have we actually
asked him to do the work and this is the work authorization?
Mr. Petty responded yes.
Mr. McKune stated this is the same
proposal we gave you before in the preparation of plans.
Mr. Petty stated this is a not to
exceed number.
Mr. Hanks asked what specialized
sub-consultants are needed?
Mr. McKune responded none. The work is all done in-house.
On MOTION by
Mr. Hanks seconded by Mr. Fennell with all in favor Work Authorization No. WA-29 for
Non-Hurricane Water Management System Vegetation Removal in an amount not to
exceed $25,000 was approved.
Mr. Lyles stated Mr. Petty commented
that this was a not to exceed number but the document does not specify. Is the $25,000 a not to exceed number?
Mr. McKune responded this is what we
anticipate.
Mr. Petty stated he would have to
come back to the Board to request additional money if he exceeded $25,000. He cannot do work and then come to us with a
bill.
Mr. Hanks stated without additional
authorization.
Mr. Petty stated Mr. McKune has a
preliminary number from the contractor.
I think he received a number between $1.3 and $1.4 Million based on the
number of trees standing.
Mr. Fennell asked did you go out and
look at the work yourself?
Mr. McKune responded those are the
areas we looked at and those are the prices per area.
Mr. Petty stated there are a couple
of different programs. Mr. Frederick is
going to show you one. I am showing you
the other. This is a minimal step in
addressing trees in the future. We are
only going after damaged trees and trees in the way of our equipment. Ornamental trees may or may or not pose any
real threat to our existing banks.
Coconut Palm, for example may not be a real direct threat. As you start thinking of other ornamental
trees maybe that changes. Under this policy you would look at where
people have put hedges in the reservoirs, small ornamental plants, which are
going to grow into big ornamental plants later on and then of course, what we
have already talked about, which is a required buffer. Where do you draw the line and what trees do
you take out during this contract? The
$1.3 to $1.4 million is for clearing everything from right-of-way to
right-of-way and edge to edge and making a green space, which is the same
concept but without ornamentals.
Mr. Frederick stated they are not
exactly cleared out but for the most part they are. We are not saying that if we did clear all
the trees out that people could not put a picnic table back there. We just did not want anything growing.
Mr. Petty stated we have two
different viewpoints, one from Mr. Frederick perspective, which I respect, for
green space. What type
of storm event are we designed to handle assuming the canals are
working? Is it a five year, ten year or
twenty-five year storm event?
Mr. McKune responded 100 year storm
event. The water can remain in the bank
as long as it is flowing.
Mr. Hanks stated during the 100 year
storm, the water is up to your door.
Mr. McKune stated you will be in
good shape unless you have some blockage then the water will rise. It will rise even quicker if the grate in the
street is blocked.
Mr. Petty stated the city has
actually learned how to clean those in the last couple of years.
Mr. Fennell stated as I remember
your explanation from before on us relying upon knowing the pump but we are
also relying upon a certain amount of absorption. By the way, it was not over a short period of
time, because I remember it was a two or three day period.
Mr. Petty stated we have had actual
conditions exceeding that.
Mr. Hyche stated in nine hours we
had 14 inches of rain.
Mr. Fennell stated I remember going
to work in the morning and having to take the C-14 canal to go home because
that was the only way to get back to my house.
Mr. Hyche stated this was because
the water in the C-14 was up to the top of the banks.
Mr. Fennell stated it was and I
still contend my street was at direct connection to C-14 so water was coming
into our street from the drain.
Mr. Hanks asked what are the elevations? Are they
in the hundreds?
Mr. Hyche responded about 16.5 or around
there.
Mr. Fennell asked can you look at my
street;
Mr. Hanks asked what is the width of
the outfall canal?
Mr. Frederick responded the width of
the canal on the outfall to the pump station is 60 to 80 feet. At
Mr. Petty stated if you recall, we
talked to you about the emergency plan in the NRCS program. Our concern was to free up every culvert
area. They look at your crossings, pipe
elevations, the size of your pipes and how much water you are actually
moving. The size of the canal is not the
body of water you are moving.
Mr. Fennell asked which one will
ensure in 15” rain where we have trees falling that I will not get flooded?
Mr. McKune responded keeping debris
out of the canal is the best way.
Mr. Fennell asked is there anything
less than that?
Mr. McKune responded it is a matter
of probability. If you had a tree in the
right-of-way and it were to fall to where you would only have the top 10 feet
leaning over, the likelihood of that causing problems is minimal. However, if you have a tree standing 100 feet
tall 15 feet from the top of the bank, that could cause a problem. I recommend clearing from right-of-way to
right-of-way.
Mr. Hanks asked what is Arbor Tree’s recommendation regarding wind events?
Mr. McKune responded Arbor Tree has
criteria for trees. The issue then
becomes if you have a healthy tree that will not blow over here and have some
growing over there, I cannot get there.
Mr. Frederick stated I received a
complaint from a resident who has two ficus trees
over 100 years old.
Mr. Hanks asked how can they be over
100 years old when this area was not developed at that time?
Mr. Fennell responded because until
recently I had two
Mr. Frederick stated we do not want
to cut down the
Mr. Fennell stated we had an issue
with
Mr. Hanks stated the water would
still flow through. On these canals are
you talking about a 16 foot culvert under the street?
Mr. Frederick responded water will,
but debris getting blown into these canals at the same time and clogging up on
these trees will not flow.
Mr. Petty stated the truth is we
have not had such an event to say one way or the other what is going to
happen. We can speculate. There is no insurance that if you do the
green way space you will not have any trees in your canal. The trees are going to cause blockage. There are going to be trees over 20 feet
high. Those are the ones we are worried
about and our easements in a lot of areas are five feet. A homeowner could have a 60 foot Upper Pine,
a 35 foot Bay tree and a 70 foot Australian Pine in
their yard.
Mr. Hanks stated one picture shows
an Australian Pine going bank to bank. Yes you are going to have some debris hanging
up on it, but you still could maintain what looks a fair amount of clear water
to provide drainage for it.
Mr. Petty stated it would depend on
how quickly you tried to move that water.
We probably could have handled a five inch rain event because it would
have been slow moving. If we turn on all of our pumps, we could keep up with
it. I do not think we are going to have
any guarantees on any options you pick.
Keep in mind that a lot of these homes in
Mr. Fennell stated I think this is
the only time we will have time to do this.
If we do a partial job, the big trees will grow again and in five or ten
years the problem will return. We need
to do the right thing and any consequences but you will never have a better
time to do the right thing.
Mr. Hanks stated we can impose
criteria on the types of trees allowed.
Mr. Fennell asked what kind of
criteria?
Mr. Hanks responded to restrict ficus and Australian Pine trees.
Mr. Fennell asked what about height?
Mr. Hanks responded the only way you
can deal with the height is by changing the species.
Mr. Petty stated another smaller
District in the area has adopted such rules, which Mr. Lyles and I familiar
with. In
Mr. Fennell asked are those trees
legally supposed to be there?
Mr. Petty responded I do not think
they are illegal. I think we have the
right to clear our rights-of-way to provide our function, which is great but I
do not know that I could call the trees illegal.
Mr. Fennell asked what will maintain
drainage in the event of a hurricane?
Mr. Petty responded I could tell you
with a certain level of confidence, I could maintain drainage with Option B, which
is permitted ornamental trees. If a
Coconut Palm pulls out of my canal I am not concerned. A lot of debris can fall in these canals
during hurricane events. Screen
enclosures with fiber glass material are far more deadly than any tree that
would fall in. I see those in every backyard. The material from plastic that gets blown in
is far more capable of causing a blockage.
The silt coming from the bank where it is not being kept from erosion
control because all I have in some cases is sod that is growing poorly. The trees have been providing, to some
degree, beneficial use by keeping the soil together with the root system. It is a form of erosion control. I do not want any trees on my slopes. The issue there is if the root wall gets
inundated with water, it is going to be a stunted root fall which is capable of
causing me bank erosion. I do not want
anything on the slope. On top of bank
you have the ability to provide some degree of latitude as long as the residents
do not expect us to spend another $3.5M cleaning it up next time.
Mr. Hanks stated I think for the
remaining residents of the District we should make a commitment to maintain
their right-of-way if they agree to maintain their trees if not removed by us.
Mr. Fennell stated we are outlining
a brief policy here but in the end this has to be proven that it will not
endanger us.
Mr. Lyles stated you are stating a
fact. If we are going to adopt a policy
it might also be a good idea to have a rulemaking procedure to the water
control plan. We are going to have to
show that the existence of some trees is somehow creating a negative impact on
the drainage, not just with the right circumstances. They have to prove the
trees do no harm. We have to prove they
are harmful or potentially do harm. We
are talking about regulating property.
For canals we own by fee simple, we are going to have to retrace the
ownership patterns for these canals.
Where we actually own property as opposed to just maintaining the
easement of the flowage of drainage, we have greater rights. We can say “sorry but this is our property
and we determined as a District that we do not want to allow trees to be
planted here because of what happened after Wilma“. It is all going to take a process.
Mr. Hanks stated we are trying to
improve on the current level of flood protection.
Mr. Fennell asked what do we need to
do to ensure the drainage flows properly?
Mr. McKune stated if you get debris
in the canal, you will have a problem.
How much depends on what size debris and how rapidly the water is moving
down the canal. It takes the smaller
debris mounded up in front of the culvert therefore, leaving tremendous
headwall. The engineering is to keep
trespassing from the canal.
Mr. Petty stated I think the
suggestion to you is not to try and go from a policy where we did not touch
trees and we are lousy with the things now.
As a matter of fact, I think one of the city’s slogans is “we are the
city of trees.” I can tell you after
going out in the field these last couple months, we have a whole lot of
trees. I am trying to talk you into
going to the next step. I am not looking
for a rule adoption at this time; I am looking for an administrative policy.
Mr. Fennell stated we are going to
spend $1.5 million but we need to determine on what and for what purpose.
Mr. Petty stated I am not asking for
$1.5 million. I am looking to see if the
Board can consider an administrative policy wherein staff adjusts the contract
out now to start removing trees considered to be hazardous which would consist
of all non-ornamental within the right-of-way.
Mr. Fennell stated I am not sure
this is good enough. I hear one argument
saying basically these were designed so there would be no trees in the
lake. If you are going to put trees in
the right-of-way what effect will this have?
Mr. McKune responded I did not say
there should not be trees in the right-of-way.
I said it was designed to have no trees blocking flow. If there were enough trees to flow into the
canal then we have a problem.
Mr. Fennell stated in that case you
probably have trees that fell into the canal, which we cannot control.
Mr. Hanks asked do we know what
level of dead loss we can tolerate?
Mr. McKune responded no.
Mr. Fennell stated there must be a
rational on how much you can tolerate.
We are going to have different kinds of trees fall in, maybe not as
much, but we are going to have something.
Mr. McKune stated the amount you can
tolerate is the crown of the road.
Mr. Fennell asked could we have
staff do a study?
There was a waterway study done by the county.
Mr. McKune responded if you start
blocking canals you will not flood the entire District at once. It will flood everything behind it in that
neighborhood.
Mr. Hanks stated if you are talking
catastrophic flooding, it is in the order of magnitude of 15 inches of
rainfall. The idea is you will be
flooded wall to wall. If you block a
canal, there are alternate paths as long as we are not isolated by roadway
debris.
Mr. Petty stated I think you raise a
good point. As you watch the water
levels rise and the roadways flood, you now have channels to move the water
around any trees that are down in your canal.
If you are outside the canal area and are dealing with flat ground, the
amount of trees is no longer an issue.
It is possible we would be able to have flooding in a house with our
pumps on because it would still be coming to us over land. Therefore, we cannot determine the number of
trees that can be taken down.
Mr. McKune stated do
not count on sheet flow.
Mr. Petty stated I have a singular
restriction and a headwall. We reached
the elevation where the water table went up to 12 feet. I have enough ground area around this
headwall, which has been plowed by a tree.
I should be able to overcome that clog.
However, if every headwall is clogged on every path, it is a different
story, but I do not think it is going to happen this way. I do not think the system is designed where
this can happen.
Mr. McKune stated it is not designed
to have a flow around sheet flow. There
is no way it can get blocked so far in there.
Mr. Petty stated no, because you
stop at the top of the bank. Mr. Hanks
is referring to a storm event going beyond top of bank.
Mr. Fennell asked for there to be
flooding, how many trees will be down?
The premise is we clean from right-of-way to right-of-way. This would be the best we can do and what it
was designed to do under the criteria.
Mr. Petty stated the design criteria
would not be true unless the design criteria considered trees. Many trees did not fall down during the last
hurricane.
Mr. Fennell stated there is a piece
of logic that is not quite right.
Mr. Petty stated if we say no trees
on top of bank between here and the water level, this is a compromised position
and gets you what you want. If we have a
five foot easement, you cannot control a tree coming out of the water. You cannot guarantee my safety during such an
event under any circumstances.
Mr. Fennell stated there is a degree
of safety.
Mr. Petty stated the tree can grow
within five feet on my property. What am
I guaranteeing you?
Mr. Fennell responded that it will
not block the flow of water.
Mr. Petty asked how do you know? It is on my
property and you cannot control it. A 70
foot Australian Pine is on my property.
Mr. Fennell stated I think we should
cite you unless you cut the tree down.
Mr. Petty stated we do not have that
ability.
Mr. Fennell stated we will go to the
city and have them cite you. We will not
have trees that are taller than the width of the canal.
Mr. McKune stated that was the idea.
Mr. Fennell asked what do we have to
do to insure the water flows and will not be impeded?
Mr. Petty responded I can bring in a specialist who can tell you that the root will hold the tree, even it is an Australian Pine because there is no supportable data stating an Australian Pine falls sooner than any other tree.