MINUTES
OF MEETING
SUNSHINE
WATER CONTROL DISTRICT
The meeting of the Board of Supervisors of the Sunshine
Water Control District was held on
Present and constituting a quorum
were:
Mary Macomber Vice President
Philip Sobers Secretary
Also present were:
John Petty Manager
Bruce Cranmer Attorney
Cedo DaSilva Engineer
John McKune Engineer
Cory Selchan Field Superintendant
Janice Larned
Jean Rugg
Numerous Residents
FIRST ORDER OF BUSINESS Roll Call
Mr. Petty called the meeting to
order and called the roll.
SECOND
ORDER OF BUSINESS Approval
of the Minutes of the May 10, 2006 Meeting
Mr. Petty stated each Board member received a copy of the
minutes of the
There
not being any,
On MOTION by Mr. Sobers seconded by Ms. Macomber with all in favor
the minutes of the
FIFTH ORDER OF BUSINESS Supervisor’s Requests
and Audience Comments
Ms.
Macomber stated let me welcome you all.
We are glad you are here this evening.
We are wrestling with a lot of issues as a result of Hurricane Wilma and
in our proactive stance we are trying to take to avoid further problems with
another horrific storm such as the one we had.
We are praying we are not going to have it this year but we are not the
final arbitrator of this. We are very
interested in hearing what you have to say.
My name is Mary Macomber and I am the vice chair. Our chair is not with us this evening and my
co-supervisor with me is Phil Sober. We
are very interested in hearing what you have to say and we welcome you.
For anyone who would like to speak we are
going to have you speak first before we get into our normal business in order
to accomodate you. I would like to ask
whoever would like to speak to make your way to the podium to address
themselves. Let us know your name and
where you live.
Mr. Ed McGuriger, Westchester Subdivision, stated I will first
start off by complimenting you for taking care of the canals. It took awhile to get the debris out of there
but you did it. Mr. Petty and I had some
conversations about the way it was done.
I was not pleased with the barge I think it caused some erosion. Erosion is something I would like to address
tonight. I come to you not only because
of a dock I have on the canal behind my house but I come to you as a citizen of
the community. I do not want to see the
same thing happen as in
Ms.
Macomber stated actually we had discussions with the city and are talking with
them at this point. We have made no
decisions at this point; we will be taking it up later this evening.
Mr.
McGuriger stated I have a concern not only for my personal situation but the
whole subdivision. I would hate to see
heavy equipment do damage and walk away from it, which is the impression which
has been left with the residents.
Secondly, I will tell you I built the dock 24 years ago. I built the dock for a couple of reasons not
only for looks but also for my kids to fish off of. We live
in a state which has a big alligator population. There was alligator there which came up to
the bank while my kid was fishing and is why I decided to put the dock up. Over the past 24 years there have probably
been 50 kids who have fished off of the dock at one time or another. I would far rather see them fishing off of
the dock than wandering the canal and getting into the snakes or alligators
that appear there. Again, the dock
withstood 100 mph winds. It came from
the south and it withstood it, the dock faces the east if it comes from the
east it is going to be laying in my yard and on my house not in your
canal. The way it is built it will
withstand far more winds than that.
Mr.
Petty stated the question was asked will we be repairing any damage from the
heavy equipment used in the removal.
Part of the contract is the bank being repaired to its original or
better form and be stable is part of the contract.
Mr. Jim
Candy,
What
type of equipment being used was never answered. If you have nothing coming off of your
property what kind of damage is going to be done? If they are not coming through on the canal
with a barge to remove the trees and such what is the sense of having to take
out the sprinkler system feed lines.
When they came through they did not bother mine because I did not have
anything for them to clear out. I know on
one part of the canal they lost all of their feed lines and again they had no
idea the barge was coming through. I did
not know about it either until it showed up one day. There is a lack of communication to the
people of
Mr.
Petty asked did everyone get noticed? We
are doing what we call door hangers; plastic bags with a orange or red piece of
paper hanging on your door to let you know we are coming out. We are not required to do it but we are doing
it because we want you to know we are there we do not want to get shot by you
thinking we are coming to peep in your windows or anything. Everyone did get one whether they read it or
not or though it was a sale on carpet cleaning, I do not know. It was our staff which put them on the doors
we did not contract with anybody. We
supervised it, we saw it, we did it and there is no question about it.
Mr.
Candy stated a neighbor saw them come down they stopped at my house and never
came around the corner with them.
Mr.
Petty stated maybe they broke for lunch or some other reason but the guy in
charge of it is sitting three rows in front of you and he told me he watched
his crews and they went to every house.
Again,
if they did not go to every house we got out to as many as we thought we could
to try to give you as much notice as we could and try to stay ahead of the
contractor to let you know.
Do we go
after trees which are not close to the waters edge? The way it is currently working with our
policy, our program and our contract is to clear all trees on our property
whether it is 5’ or 50’ from the water.
The issue being anything within our property that would cause flooding
would be a major faux pas on our part after any hurricane would take it and
throw it to cause any trouble. The issue
here is not whether or not it is going to stop the water at issue to as you saw
and we saw with Hurricane Wilma and the point which really got to us is we could
not get access to do examinations to the banks.
We could not get in; we could not walk in because of all of the
trees. Our engineer and staff estimate
approximately 50% of the trees were taken out by Hurricane Wilma and this is
why we are looking at this issue.
You asked about chain link fences – why
remove them, they keep the dogs in the yard, they are there for security. They keep us from access and during the times
of emergency we do not have hours or days to take a fence down neatly to store
it in your yard so you can reinstall it; we are reacting to a flood event. You have seen the rain come in Coral Springs
and you know we have 15” to 16” of rain, I need to get back in there and I do
not have time to take down rows and rows of fences, we never permit them, it is
our policy not to allow them, if you put
them there it is at your own risk. Our
equipment will remove them, possibly cleanly, possibly not so cleanly, but this
is the reason we go after fences.
What
type of equipment will we use – everything we think is necessary to protect the
homes from flooding; backhoes, barges, pickup trucks, and draglines. It is whatever is necessary to protect the
drainage in
A
resident asked will they be dragging them out?
Mr.
Petty responded I cannot tell you that.
Ms.
Macomber stated if you want to address another question please come back up.
Mr.
Petty stated the other question you had is why take it all down now, you are
going to be taking trees on both sides and why go on a side where you would not
be doing anything normally – if this were a storm event and we had damage to
the lake bank we would only bring equipment on to the bank which had damage or
to the adjacent area that we need access to the area to be fixed. We would not be working on both sides, we would
not be tracking, we would not be knocking down fences or taking out trees. This is for hurricane preparation for the
hurricane season we are currently in. We
saw what happened when the trees came down and our concern is very real; if
there is a rain event with a storm like Hurricane Wilma the trees which fell
down could cause major local flooding.
It is a legitimate concern and is why we are talking about the
program.
Mr. Runn
asked did it cause flooding? Let us use
Hurricane Wilma as an example because this is what you are hanging your hat
on. Did it cause flooding? No.
What we are trying to get at is what is your motivation for doing this? I am trying to stay calm but quite frankly
Mr. Petty they way you just addressed the crowd was adversarial. Your relationship here is granted it is your
property, cut it off, you can do it and you have made your point. You made your point with your orange brochure
and I thought you were a little rude here.
I have lived in my house for 15 years.
I read your website in addition to the maintenance of the adjoining
banks to the water line is the responsibility of the individual property line is the individual property
owners. This includes the removal of
Florida Holly and Australian Pines, we all agree they should go. This is at our expense per the city
commission, even though it is on your property.
This requirement is part of the ordinance of the City of
Ms.
Macomber stated thank you for your comments.
I would like to address you. You
are you we are you. I like you am a
resident of
Mr. Runn
asked can your engineer answer my question?
Are you going to be able to pump the canal any faster? What is that you are trying to accomplish
here? I do not understand.
Mr.
Petty responded you asked several questions let me try to get all of them
including the one you just asked.
·
Did we flood
during Wilma? The answer is no, the
rainfall event during the storm was minimal.
It was not a rainfall event to cause concern. We did not even have to turn on the
pumps. You act like you know we have a
pump drainage system by gravity. Mr. Runn stated I did not know that. Mr.
Petty stated our drainage system cannot flow downhill. We are flatlanders and water stays wherever
it hits and it starts going up. The
water which hits
·
Can I tell you
it is going to flood if the trees fall down?
It all depends; are they going to collect trash, are they going to
block, is the water going to go around.
We asked our engineer to define it and he said we were asking him define
the circumference of a needle and multiply it by a million, I am telling you
anything in the water which prevents a clear flow of water is a problem. As your engineer I have to tell you
this. We understood it and looked for
ways around it to try to modify and say is there such a thing as a bad tree, is
there a list of hazardous trees, no. Any
trees which comes down and can fall in there is on our property.
·
Will it prevent
flooding? You are absolutely right sir,
it does not guarantee a thing. Your
house can blow into the canal and block it, you screen could, this is not a
guarantee; we are trying to do the best we can on our own property you have given
to us as a responsibility. We saw after
Hurricane Wilma the idea that the residents will maintain down to the waters
edge is something we could not count on to prevent flooding. Had there been rainfall during Hurricane
Wilma we think we would have gotten a great deal of flooding and with this in
mind we are going after what we think is our responsibilities by removing the
trees.
·
The website
information is absolutely correct. This
is what we have on the website and he is quoting you apples to apples
there.
·
Was I
rude? I hope not it was not my intent
and if it came across I apologize.
Mr. Runn
stated I would like to hear your position on the ecology aspect of it,
including fertilizer run off.
Mr.
Petty stated the Board has discussed this over the meetings I have attended and
it is part of the public record. We had
professionals from the
Mr. Sam
Spattaro, 2620 NW 115 Drive, stated first I would like to say personally I felt
you did a great job in helping us clean up after the hurricane. Let’s face it none of us expected to get what
we got and the reality of it is we were very lucky. I will take those odds any day of 1 in
55. One year out of 55 years we had a
storm here which was tough to deal with.
My thoughts are the reaction that you are us and we are you and I will
use the word we if it makes you feel more comfortable. I think it is very reactionary it is like
saying we have one house in a row of houses which burns down because the gas
plumbing in the house was bad we are going to take all of the houses down for
fear another one might go up. I do not
know that there has been enough time put into the decisions you have made for
us. I am fortunate to have bought a home
in
Ms.
Macomber stated thank you for your comments and we will have our superintendent
answer your questions.
Mr. Petty stated it is not so much questions
but you were concerned about whether or not it was arbitrary or knee jerk and
while I respect your recommendation for giving it more time for more options. It was not a knee jerk, it was given due course
and discussion over
several meetings but I do acknowledge your recommendation that more time be
given to see more options.
Mr.
Spattaro asked can I make one more comment?
I apologize but the other thought which comes to mind is I came in here
thinking this was the most important thing I would have to say is that we as a
public for 25 years code enforcement has ignored this row of trees because they
have been there as long as the house was built.
Now all of a sudden we feel compelled to enforce the law so to speak
when in reality I will not say we have broken the law but we have ignored
it. I think this needs to be taken under
advisement as well.
Ms. Rose
Cobacino,
Ms.
Macomber stated it might help you to know we had discussions earlier today with
Vice Mayor Gold. We have not taken any
action yet.
Mr.
Cobacino stated I wanted to add a little to what she said. Our canal was the one you described earlier
which was a total disaster. There were
trees from one end to the other you could walk up and down the middle of our
canal without any problems. Your people
came in and I could not believe they brought in all kinds of heavy equipment
and with my neighbors permission they took his fence down brought in the
equipment and cleaned out the canal. The
water is fine, they took down some of our foliage, most of it was gone
already. They brought in dirt and sod
and they made it beautiful. The second
point is you talk about floods and the ability of the canals to drain
water. Some of our canals and the one in
particular I am familiar with is right behind City Hall south. I have seen this canal empty. When they built City Hall south they had to
relocate the north end of it to build the building and it goes under the
parking lot now. When the canal was
empty it was probably 8’ to 10’ deep.
Today you can walk across it. If
this canal was really counted on to carry a lot of the water because of a flood
situation it could not do it because it does not have the capacity
anymore. The basic problem is the canal
needs to be dug out. One of the problems
with the canal is when they clean the parking lot they blow everything to the
west and the canal is filled up. Today
you can walk across the canal and as long as you have all of this heavy
equipment I am wondering if there is a possibility they can dig it out a little
bit.
Mr.
Petty stated there was a question about the depth of the canal and its capacity
to handle drainage. In most cases the
canals were dug for fill not so much for handling deep-water flow. The engineer can be very specific about it
but typically on every canal there is an outfall pipe and this is an elevation. All of the water below the pipe does not
matter because all you are going to get is flow from the pipe elevation and
above. All of the canals which are
filling in we are kind of glad they are because they were basically over dug
for fill and we are finally getting some back but you have a legitimate point
and we do have an ongoing program to go through all of our canals to put them
back to design elevations. Over a period
of time we do get silt and organic material, which periodically have to be
scraped and cleaned out.
Mr.
David Hewlett NW 75th Avenue, Dells/Meadows Neighborhood
Association, stated ours is one of the oldest neighborhoods and we have the box
canals.
Ms.
Macomber stated I remember working with you with Pride Promoters 15 years ago
when we worked to get all of
Mr. Hewlett
stated I have been a resident for 26 years.
The canals were overgrown to the extent the water flow was impeded. The removal of the holly and the Australian
Pines so the water could flow back and forth freely I certainly do not have any
objections to. My thought was it seems
like this should have been done a long time ago. With that being said part of it I think is a
responsible action on your part and was long overdue. I do not think we have
any problems with the removal of the trees in the actual ditches so the water
can be free flowing. In all due respect
I think the second phase is just a little bit over the top; I think the removal
of every bush, tree, shrub, palm tree and every spec of vegetation is really,
as some of the other speakers have already mentioned, going to have a
tremendous impact if any on future flooding which seems to be your major
concern as to whether the canals or drainage ditches are going to be
flooding. I was here in 1979 for the 16”
rain, I was just buying my house at this particular time, I went out and there
was no flooding and to my knowledge we have never had flooding in
Ms.
Macomber stated I was where you are 10 years ago when we first tried to get the
box cut canals cleaned and we got nowhere at that point because we were unable
to get the city and the water district to work together. When I came on the Board on of the things I
wanted to hope to be able to accomplish was to finally be able to get those
canals cleaned up and I would like to compliment our staff and the way we were
able to work with the city just recently to finally get the box cut canals
cleaned out because they were really dangerous.
I thank you for your diligence in the neighborhood all of these years
because you have done wonderful work there.
Mr. Hewlett
stated another point which comes to mind is I have been in this community
almost as long as everybody and have been active in a number of things over the
years but I will tell you I did not know that keeping the canal bank with trees
growing into the canals cut back was my responsibility. I did not know this and I have been here 26
years and I think you have to take some of those things into
consideration. To remove the trees from
the canal to keep the water flowing is fine but this second part I would hope
you will readdress it.
Mr.
Cranmer stated I would like to elaborate on what Ms. Macomber has said. We entered into an agreement with the City of
I would
like to recognize two of our newly elected commissioners who have taken time to
come tonight, Ms. Claudette Bruck and Mr. Vince Boccard. Mr. Roy Gold was here earlier as well.
The box
cut canals are a particular problem and it was an experiment in the
1960’s. Box cut means there are vertical
walls and if you fall in you might not be able to climb out. The theory of the box cut was it would
postpone the day when they would have to be dredged. We found out there is not a whole lot of
erosion with the clay and rock soil we have and the problem was over the years
there was not enough enforcement of the obligation of homeowners to maintain
the banks and over many decades they got to the point there was no way you could
have done it if you lived in the Dells or the Meadows. It would have been $5,000, $6,000 to $10,000
a yard to do it and finally we did some research and I know Mr. Selchan and
others looked back and found this argument of the city and the District goes back
almost 30 years. We wanted the city to
enforce maintain your canal bank and they wanted us to do it and finally we
worked out an agreement. The city is
part of what we are doing, if you call my office I will send you a copy of the
agreement, it is a collaboration between the two agencies. We do not do box cuts anymore.
To Mr.
Runn’s point a tree which withstands the winds and does not fall surely the
roots are assisting in preventing erosion, the problem is as Mr. Petty points
out if you are at the water table the roots are undermined and the roots are
immersed in water, the tree falls in the canal, it collects other debris and
pretty soon it is like a bunch of beavers building a dam and the water is in
your house instead.
Ms.
Macomber stated I would like to apologize for not recognizing our new
commissioners. We are glad to have you
with us. Before us now is Erdahl Donnez,
Assistant City Manager.
Mr. Donnez stated I wanted to be on the record as
saying the city has cooperated on the Phase 1 cleaning of the box cut canals in
the Dells and Meadows. We had subsequent
phases remaining in the area then we had Hurricane Wilma. I want to make it very clear the maintenance
of the canal banks is not the city’s responsibility. When you said the city is in it, no it is
not. I just want to make it clear the
city has no jurisdiction on the right-of-way owned by the water district.
A resident asked what is the city’s position on it?
Mr. Petty responded if I could all questions should be
directed to the Chair and we would rather not get into a voice contest.
Mr. Cranmer stated I agree it is the responsibility of the
homeowner to maintain and it is the city’s responsibility to enforce it.
Ms. Macomber stated I believe what Mr. Cranmer was referring
to is for quite a while we had a difficult time getting code enforcement to
agree to help enforce the homeowners rights which they have now agreed to do
under this agreement.
Mr. Cranmer stated you cannot blame them because it had gotten
so bad over 30 years we could not expect you to spend $10,000 and is why we
entered into this cost sharing agreement with the city which I believe was
ratified by the city on January 18, 2006.
Mr. Donnez stated with respect to the customers here they are
not fully clear about some of the issues and I want to make it clear code
enforcement does enforce the backyards but we do not go onto private
property. Unless there is a specific
complaint code enforcement does not going peeking into the backyard of people.
Mr. Cranmer stated they do not look for trouble, I understand.
Ms. Macomber stated thank you for clarifying it.
Mr. Dan Bruck,
Ms. Macomber stated I appreciate you bringing this up because
one of things we are doing is just that.
We are talking with the city now, we are trying to work with the city to
set up a relationship between the District and the city for all of us to work
together on these issues. I want to
thank you for thinking of it and let you know we have also thought of it and
met with Mr. Donnez and Commissioner Gold this afternoon and hopefully all
these different issues coming together with the city and the District we will
be able to get some good things done.
Mr. Bruck asked what about giving us a little bit of time to
catch up? We have all just got on the
bandwagon and we want to encourage our commissioners.
Ms. Macomber responded we are listening to you.
Mr. Bruck stated you are going to be starting this pretty
soon. Are you going to give us some
time?
Ms. Macomber responded we hear you and we are working on
it.
Mr. Petty stated there was one other issue I would like
to address. He said there is probably
money from the state and there is not.
The money from the federal government, NRCS and any participation by the
state in the clean up after Hurricane Wilma happened in Phase 1. In Phase 2 there is no issue once you get
into this area it is only clearing up out of the water itself and the immediate
right-of-way of downed trees that were covered under the storm so this is
something we are doing with your dollars.
Ms. Macomber stated we had a heck of time with FEMA. We are doing our very best and we think we
are seeing some light at the end of the tunnel but they do not make it
easy. We are trying to make sure we
cover our bases for your sake.
Mr. Cranmer stated what you left out was this Board was
so confident in getting their paperwork and act together we were in first place
for the money after Hurricane Wilma.
Since then the issue with the City of
Ms. Macomber stated the gentleman speaking is Mr. Bruce
Cranmer, our attorney. He has been with
the District for years and before this he was with the city and he has a lot of
history in the area.
Commissioner Bruck,
Ms.
Macomber stated thank you for your comments.
I want you to know it was this group who allowed me to make an entrée to
the city to Commissioner Gold to ask him to talk about these issues. I am delighted to tell you he agreed as was
joined by the city manager so hopefully we are hearing you. We cannot comment officially at this point
because we are taking it all in and we have to discuss it amongst ourselves but
we thank you for your comments, we appreciate the fact you took time out of
your busy schedules to be come here tonight to talk to us and tell us how you
feel. We hope you have gained from what
we have answered for you a little better understanding of the issues we are all
faced with in this which both Hurricane Wilma and growth over the years but we
all have to deal with this in regard to keeping our canals clear and clean for
the benefit of everyone.
Mr.
Joseph Minor,
Mr.
Petty stated it is out of context I think the way you are looking at it. The intent was to tell you if you have
anything in the ground heavy equipment may damage it. We are going to repair the bank. It is part of our maintenance job to make
sure the bank is repaired and we will put sod back down. It is stated in there because people have irrigation
systems underground, they have invisible dog fences and all kinds of stuff they
have put underneath there and heavy equipment will tear it up and we are
advising them in the brochure in that paragraph to remove any personal property
from the District’s right-of-way.
Mr.
Minor stated I think this is another question about the drainage pipe where it
says they are not responsible for it.
Mr.
Petty stated not drainage pipes; I believe you are talking about
irrigation.
Mr.
Minor stated I am reading this how it was put out and most of the people I have
talked to have taken it the same way I am taking it; that there would be no
repair. It says there will no bank
reshaping.
Mr.
Petty stated I apologize to all those who got that message. I may have been too much into the drainage
business and not too much into what the homeowner may know that is not in this
business. Reshaping was just done under
Phase 1 and cost us quite a bit when we removed the trees we saw major pieces
of the bank which had peeled away with the root ball and those banks had to be
reshaped. It is not in this contract
because there is no damage we have not done under Phase 1. The only damage to be repaired of course is
from our actual construction practices.
Mr.
Minor stated on the issue of Phase 1 on
Ms.
Linda Geronimo, Country Club Resident, asked how do you determine how much is
each person’s property? Are they not all
different?
Mr.
Petty responded we are determining it through our engineer who is doing surveys
from centerline of road back. The canal
banks are supposed to move, they are designed to move. We are concerned about erosion but there is
natural movement as well. They take it
from specific areas according to the engineer based on layout.
Ms.
Karen Hewlett, The Dells, stated I certainly concur with everything everybody
has said. I am very, very concerned
about the ecology. I am concerned about
the results. Five years into living here
and we have been here 26 years. The
District came in with their flat boat and there action was to spray a
herbicide. I think it was Agent Orange
and it killed all of the weeds and the holly, which fell right into the
canal. It went way beyond the 15’ leeway
and killed all of our grass. We never
saw anybody from the drainage district until Hurricane Wilma and that was the
plan. If this is flush cut what are the
results going to be when you take everything out with the ecology, the erosion
and so forth? I am very concerned and
wanted to express this tonight.
Ms. Macomber stated