MINUTES OF MEETING

SUNSHINE WATER CONTROL DISTRICT

 

            The meeting of the Board of Supervisors of the Sunshine Water Control District was held on October 11, 2006 at 6:30 p.m. at the Commission Chambers, Coral Springs City Hall, 9551 West Sample Road, Coral Springs, Florida.

 

            Present and constituting a quorum were:

 

            Mary Macomber                                        Vice President

            Philip Sobers                                              Secretary

 

            Also present were:

 

            John Petty                                                  Manager

            Bruce Cranmer                                           Attorney

            John McKune                                             Engineer

            Cory Selchan                                              Field Superintendant

            Janice Larned                                             Severn Trent

            Mona Slaughter                                          Severn Trent

            Numerous Residents

 

 

FIRST ORDER OF BUSINESS                         Roll Call

            Mr. Petty called the meeting to order and called the roll. 

 

SECOND ORDER OF BUSINESS                    Approval of the Minutes of the July 12, 2006 Meeting

            Mr. Petty stated the Board members received a copy of the minutes of the July 12, 2006 meeting and requested any addition, corrections or deletions.

            Ms. Macomber stated I have some changes and I will give them to you. 

            All corrections received will be incorporated into the record. 

 

On MOTION by Mr. Sobers seconded by Ms. Macomber with all in favor the minutes of the July 12, 2006 meeting were approved as amended. 

 

            Mr. Petty stated we have a lot of people in the audience tonight. 

            Ms. Macomber stated welcome again, everybody and I see at least one commissioner I recognize. 

            Mr. Petty stated we have polled most of the people in the crowd and their topic seems to be trees which is to be discussed under the manager’s report and if it is alright with the Board we would like to move it to the next item.

            Ms. Macomber stated by all means. 

 

FIFTH ORDER OF BUSINESS                   Staff Reports

            C.        Superintendent

            Mr. Petty stated at the last meeting we took comments from the public on the issue of trees within the District’s drainage right-of-way, the concerns the District had in addressing the drainage and flood control issues, what we have seen since Hurricane Wilma and residents concerns and suggestions.  The Board has awarded a contract but has said we will not issue a notice to proceed until this Board has evaluated options staff was to bring to you.  These included options our sister districts were also working out within the city with residents and with the City of Coral Springs.

            Tonight we would like to share with you a short powerpoint and forgive me for using powerpoint but there are a couple of items which are useful.  Our sister district, Coral Springs Improvement District, hired an independent arborist to give the issue of what do trees need since we are not experts in trees.  He had some good observations we would like to bring to your attention as well. 

            Before we start let me say when this states discussion of proper plantings for canal banks and waterways this is coming from the arborist and not the District.  We would like you to consider these but certainly some are arborist concerns and may not be applicable to drainage.

            Powerpoint Presentation – Prepared by John Sutton of Sutton Consulting Arborist, Inc.

Tree and Canals

Slide 1:     Root Structure

o                   Rootball Structure

o                   Radial Roots – Water table

Slide 2:     Roots

Slide 3:     Shallow roots make trees unstable in storms

Slide 4:     Preventative pruning reduces damage in storms

Slide 5:     Common mistakes in planting

o                      Planting too close to waters edge

o                      Over planting restricts access to canal banks for maintenance

Slide 6:     Hazards

o                      Roots do not grow into water

Slide 7:     Buffer or Maintenance Problem?

Slide 8:     Maintenance is Essential

Slide 9:     Limited Support – no roots on waterside

Slide 10:   Residences along canal

o                   At risk for damage from trees in a major wind event

o                   The loss of property and possibly life could be avoid by removing trees prior to a major wind event

Slide 11:   Example –

o                   Root system failure

o                   Time does not remedy these situations

Slide 12:   Example –

o                      Stand of trees damaged

o                      If not corrected could pose a threat to residences

o                      New plantings should allow for 360o root space

Slide 13:   Potential for Castrophe

o                   Large number of residences along canals in Florida

o                   Trees increase the odds for property damage

o                   Does not necessarily take a hurricane

Slide 14:   Example – Pines growing too close to the water and too close together

Slide 15:   No Ficus

o                     Not a nusiance tree, now an ornamental

o                     Expansive surface roots

o                     Prone to breakage

Slide 16:   Example - Vegatative buffer – planted without respect to property line

Slide 17:   Example - Safe way to prune trees – no way to make hurricane proof

Slide 18:   Root Barrier – to close to the edge

Slide 19:   Example – water supposed to rise

Slide 20:   Excessive rain makes trees unstable

Slide 21:   Skipped

Slide 22:   Skipped

Slide 23:   Skipped

Slide 24:   Canal Maintenance – Summary – Enforcements

Mr. Petty stated what we would like to talk to you about tonight is we know we have an issue concerning safety, we know we have an issue concerning flood control and we also know from the residents who were at the last meeting in July that the residents would like to keep as many trees as possible as long as it does not hurt them.  I certainly do not think there was anybody who was for flooding but they certainly wanted to save as many trees as they could.  The Board listened and asked staff to look for options.  We are going to mirror what Coral Springs Improvement District (“CSID”) did after their Town Hall meeting where they took similar comments from residents in their district. 

In this view basically we are going to have a very defined top of bank.  Your yard maybe more sloped and we may have to put a stake there to show you.  For reasons of understanding what we are proposing we would like for safety and flood control we would like to remove all trees between the waters edge and top of bank beginning with nuisance species only.  This mirrors what CSID did and we will be asking our Board to consider tonight.  We are working with the city with the CSID board and we would like to collarborate with them as the Sunshine Board, if the Board allows, to work with the city on the issue of mantaining canopy above top of bank.  We have looked at the cost of maintaining our canal areas and  right-of-way.  Typically in the past on top of bank is where we drove our equipment, it is where we are expected to take our draglines to clean the canals.  What we found after Hurricane Wilma was several contractors who are available who have barges who can come here and remove very large material including such things as dredging canals in the future from the water body.  For this reason wherever we can put a barge in we would recommend to the Board we only remove trees below top of bank.  If there are nuisance species issues where removal is considered a different priority, we may consider it, but basically focus on this area beginning with nuisance trees and then working with the city on the ornamentals.  For the nuisance trees there is a long list the city has and we will go by their list.  The Australian Pines, Florida Holly and Melaleuca are the biggest names there; but there are several others on it though.  This is what we will focus on but there are ornamentals.  Say you have a Hong Kong Orchid, it is considered an ornamental and we would not take it down; not in this phase.  We would still talk to the city to say we still think this tree in the water containment area is a threat but we will work with them in their canopy restructuring program which they started after Hurricane Wilma to see if we could do a plant someplace else nearby to try to offset the cost and the impact of removing the tree. 

Mr. Candy asked what about small shrubs and gardens?  I do not have any but there are people who have them.  A guy put a lot of very nice ornamental garden stuff and bricks all around it built up from the bank so that it is terraced.  It is 3’ to 4’ from the water.  I cannot see where any storm damage and if little shrubs fell in there, in all honesty, what damage is it going to do?  We were told at the last meeting you were taking out everything. 

Mr. Petty stated I am about done with this; do you want to take comments from the public at this time and we can address this gentleman?

Ms. Macomber asked are you through?

Mr. Petty stated this is pretty much the recommendation at this time.  I will summarize and then we can talk about the comments. 

Basically, CSID has completed their program and it has resulted in their concerns being alleviated by about 85% which in our case is a much better position than where we were after Hurricane Wilma.  For the residents during Hurricane Wilma we had about 50% of the trees in our drainage area taken down.  We are doing this by volume not by counting.  We are estimating about 50% of the trees are still there and we do know by count how many we have moved out; it is over 5,000 trees. 

Ms. Macomber asked are you talking about trees which were down?

Mr. Petty responded trees downed by the hurricane.  This leaves in the 5,000 to 6,000 range left.  We were hoping to get this done before peak hurricane months, which is now, and we were not able to do it. 

We have a couple of issues.  One is we have a contract and we will not give a start date.  It has gone through so much time we would ask you to allow staff to re-bid it under whatever is approved by this body.  We do not have to make a decision tonight; we are just asking you to consider these options.  We think they have validity and we think our sister district has done pioneer work here.  We think we can start with it and be effective with going after the trees below top of bank and designed high water level, nuisance trees first and then working with the city on ornamental trees.  I believe the city calls it a mitigation bank or something similar.  They have a specific program for removal of ornamental trees and even though we consider it a problem of safety; we may want to work on mitigation issues because it is the canopy of Coral Springs which we all enjoy.  Although it is in an area it should not be it does not mean we cannot help with another tree going in an area where it can be benifical without being a hazard. 

Ms. Macomber stated it is paramount we work together with the city; we are in this thing with the city.  We must help each other to get through this.  I think this has been very enlightening from my point of view.

 

SIXTH ORDER OF BUSINESS                        Supervisor’s Request and Audience Comments

     Mr. Petty stated we had a gentleman who spoke earlier and brought up a specific scenario.

Ms. Macomber stated I would like to have them come up to the dais please.

Mr. Petty stated please give your name for the record. 

Mr. Jim Candy, 119th Lane, (previously asked about small shrubs and gardens)

Mr. Petty stated it is a very good question.  If you have just brush material is it an issue?  It is typically not an issue and what we will recommend in this discussion and consideration is brush material which cannot grow into a tree, and the reason I say this is because ficus is a separate little animal, but roses bushes, flowers and this type of thing is not an issue for anybody other than in the slope area because you may cause erosion to the bank and is the only reason why we are concerned there.  Otherwise it does not cause a hinderence in a hurricane it is just a concern of does it cause erosion and in your specific example the homowner had built a brick facility there.  If you recall at the beginning of this I said the District in adopting this policy will still hold its right to bring in equipment if necessary and if he has a brick structure there it causes me a hinderence.  Brick and wood structures are a problem, brush materials are not with the exception of trees like ficus where a homeowner has a nice ficus hedge in his back yard about 6’ tall, well trimmed and kept.  It is not a problem if it is above top of bank.  The issue is if he moves is the next person going to keep them at 6’ high and how do I enforce it.  It may be a policy this Board has adopt now and then modify in the future. 

Mr. Candy stated they have to maintain it.

Mr. Petty stated the key is we do not have much enforcement power here and we are asking the city now to be tree policemen in backyards and it is a tough job, there are a lot of dogs back there.  It is something we have to talk about but right now we are not going after bushes with the exception of some ficus trees there will probably be future discussion but we are not even asking the Board to consider it today.

Mr. Candy asked what about chainlink fences and stuff like that?  Where people have chainlink fences going all the way down say if they have dogs preventing their dogs from going in someone elses yard? 

Mr. Petty responded the District currently has a policy of no structures including fences allowed in the District’s right-of-way or easements.  If there are such structures they are not by permit or if they were issued a very special permit from the old days it is subject to the District taking it out at anytime it seems desirable for the maintenance of the canal.  In effect what I have told people over the phone is I do not have a fence policeman who is going to come out and harrass you what is going to happen one day though when I do have to do maintenance you will have to understand when I come through you will end up shy 50’ of fence because I had to do something. 

     Mr. Candy stated this is if you have to come down the bank and not from the canal. 

     Mr. Petty stated the city will not allow you to build down to waters edge, they understand the right-of-way is there but again they cannot be there all the time and some things are done without permits as well. 

     Mr. Candy stated when you go on a lot of the canals a lot of people have chainlink fences that go right down to the water.  I have only lived here seven years but I have not seen those cause trouble.  A wooden fence I could understand maybe if you had a tremendous storm but the hurricanes have not taken down any chainlink fence. 

     Mr. Petty stated we are not worried about the fence failing.  We are worried about the fence impacting a repair project.  As you saw with Hurricane Wilma these fences may pose a hazard and in most instances where the fence was still there we were able to address it from the barge.  As I tell most residents who ask me on the phone we will not take it down unless we have to so if I need to get in there we will exercise our right, it is our property we will go in to maintain it for flood control and maintenance but until that time I am not going to go after a guy who has had a fence there for 15 years. 

Mr. Dave Burke, 29th Street, stated I believe my palms trees have a different kind of root.  Are you after my palm trees?

Mr. Petty responded even the arborist said certain palm trees have a phenominal staying strength in storms.  You are correct that the issue with the palm trees is not going to be that big of an issue.  There are palm trees which do not have that holding capability; the queen palm is one. 

Mr. Burke stated mine is a Royal Palm.

Mr. Petty stated I do not know about Royal Palms.  I did ask about Sabal Palms and they said their root strucutre is rock solid.  Most palm trees planted at top of bank and back should not be a concern.  If you are planted close to the water it is something the Board may want to consider because it will be part of the ornamentals we will ask the city to work with us on to try and either move them or try to mitigate them into some other type of canopy. 

Mr. Burke stated my entire point was all trees do not have the same kind of root structure and the palm tree is one which does not fit your mold.   

Mr. Petty stated you are absolutely right. 

Mr. Burke stated my next question has to do with the top of the bank.  We are going to make a whole lot of decisions, personally.  I look at my house and everything you talk about tonight talks about this top of bank.  Who is going to show me where that is?

Mr. Petty responded I can tell you how to find it.  If we adopted a program of such control we would do similar to what we did in other districts and the suggestion there by staff was to stake the locations so the homeowner can see what they have to move.  There we put out doorhangers to give the residents notice that if you have any personal belongings in this area move it back, if you have trees in this area which you can move and you feel like doing so please do. 

Ms. Macomber asked is top of bank determined by the engineer?

Mr. Petty responded a better definition for top of bank is designed high water level.  These canals are designed to hold water. 

Mr. Burke asked are you telling me that could occur on my property?

Mr. Petty responded the design high water level, yes. 

Mr. Burke stated then I can affect where your canal ends if the water will not flow into my yard because I built something there.

Mr. Petty stated I wish it was that simple. 

Mr. Burke stated it seems to be that simple.  If the water will not flow in my yard you have nothing to remove. 

Mr. Petty stated there have been recordings of plats which define these right-of-ways.

Mr. Burke asked why would I have a problem with the right-of-way?

Mr. Petty stated the design high water level is based on elevation.  You are right if you have a raised elevation because you are on a hilly part of Coral Springs but again if you put improvements in the District’s property that is a problem.

Mr. Burke stated I am talking about my property; I do not care about your property. 

Mr. Petty stated your property is fine. 

Mr. Burke stated therefore I can affect your top of bank. 

Mr. Petty stated I have not heard that yet but it is a strong point.  If a homeowner on his property put up a seawall for example would it keep us at that elevation.  If it is outside of the right-of-way, of course it will because it is your property.  If it is inside the right-of-way the District still reserves the right to maintain it and you cannot build anything in there so you would not be allowed that option.  On your personal property you would set the design high water level.  Design high water is not supposed to be on your property; it is supposed to be in my right-of-way.  If it comes on your property I am worried because my job is to keep your place from flooding. 

Mr. Burke stated I have lived on my property for about 10 years and over that 10 year period my property seems to be getting smaller and I think maybe your water is getting bigger. 

Mr. Petty stated that is a good point. 

Mr. Burke stated part of the problem is not me because I do not shovel my bank into your canal but I do notice your guys coming around occasionally and killing whatever is growing on my bank.  Those things die, the rains comes and then I have to step back another foot.  What will prevent you from doing that? 

Mr. Petty responded the aquatic plant maintenance program is based on the residents request over 30 years to remove unsightly aquatics on the banks and is why we go out to spray.  If the aquatic plants come out and you see the spatterdock, they look like lilies but they get the little yellow flowers which really never open up.  It can cover a canal system and catch all kinds of debris.  Our maintenance guy goes out and sprays the heck out of it to clear the canal space.  Other plant materials grow below the surface which we are concerned about for flowway.  At the edge it is strictly the aesthics of the neighborhood after hearing 30 years of residents ask for it.  We know of your issue on the erosion control and in particular in the Sunshine Water Control District we have a lot of hard cut canals which you have heard referred to as box-cuts.  We have box-cut canals which were basically scooped out and wherever the dirt landed after you pulled the dirt out is the way they left them.  It was not until the late 1970’s early 1980’s that they started coming up with a four-to-one slope requirement around canals and this was basically due to the drowning incidents.  They made it so all future drainage systems had a walk out capability but existing drainage systems were not required because if you did not have the land you could not stabilize.  In our case we have had the problem for a long time and this year for the first time our staff has been looking at what they call a geosock, which is mirrafie fabric, it comes in various sizes up to 2’ to 3’ in diameter.  Typically you put two to three out at a time.  They are long pipes you fill with sand, you pump out, you push it along the bank, you have one supporting below the waterline and one on top of the waterline, you take the sod and put it down right on top.  No aquatic plants can grow there because there is mirrafie there to keep the weeds out.  The sod can grow in the little bit of soil underneath it but this is all that is going to grow there.  It will take the wave action and stabilize the bank.  For the time we have put money in the budget ot run test sites within Sunshine this year to see how the sock works because we see the same thing you see.  We see lake banks moving backwards and while we are still within our right-of-way we have those same concerns and we want to maintain and stabilize it to the best of our abilities. 

Mr. Burke asked if this so called top of bank is on my property?

Mr. Petty responded it cannot be. 

Mr. Burke asked it is not going to be on my property it is going to be within your easement?

Mr. Petty responded by design it is within the easement unless the elevations have been changed by the homeowner or landowner.

Mr. Burke stated then what I need to consider is looking at my little piece of land and the little curved line which runs around my canal. 

Mr. Petty stated from your survey which you can get from the property appraisers office you can measure from a corner of your house backward to our right-of-way line.  It is shown on the property appraisers website.

Mr. Burke stated anything on my side of the line.

Mr. Petty stated it is yours I cannot touch it. 

Mr. Gary Rung, 31st Street, asked is the right-of-way your right-of-way on our property?  It is not our property, we do not get taxed on it?

Mr. Petty responded no.  It is owned by you as all government lands are.

Mr. Rung stated but that little section is not mine.

Mr. Petty stated it is not private property and you do not pay taxes on it. 

Mr. Rung stated you have a serious consideration and I think you are taking it seriously.  I know I appreciate what happened the last meeting and how you tabled things to look forward.  You are the oldest water district, this is the heart of Coral Springs.  We have been here for a long time and there is a history here obviously.  The nuisance trees did not grow overnight, they grew, somebody did not maintain them and whether it is the water district or the landowner we would both share that fall I am sure because as a landowner I think we have a responsibility for maintaining the right-of-way.  I take a little issue of whether you can be sued or we can be sued on some of this because we have maintenance responsibilities for the right-of-way.  As time has gone on Coral Springs has built up beautifully and it looks beautiful.  I appreciate that these people are very professional civil engineers but the fact remains there are people sitting in the audience who have lived in the same house for 30 plus years.  They have seen the same canals for 30 plus years, they have been through hurricanes.  The devastation has you guys running too because we are doing 10 to 20 years of terrible stuff, Allstate has raised our prices 80% with 80% more on the board; State Farm, et cetera and this includes the water district now.  You are professional civil engineers and I understand that but I think we are running from something we could sit back and not run quite so fast from to see if we really do have a problem in the first place.  First off a lot of the trees we just saw on the graphics are typical Florida trees.  We do not have tap trees in Florida; they are all flat rooted trees.  The wind direction Mr. Sutton put together is so convienent for the fall over of the trees because it came where there was no roots to support that sifdre of the tree.  ¾’s of the trees the wind could have came from any direction but he put his arrow there.  It still happened and we know that.  None of us want anything to happen and I think everybody in Coral Springs is for the nuisance trees going.  I personally have Coconut Palms and am not affected by this now.  I have a National Certified Wildlife habitat, my neighbors also.  It is bamboo, bougenvilla, orchids, coconut palms, and it is a paver path on the right-of-way.  It is a beautiful piece of property.  I sit there looking out the window at Baltimore Orioles, iguanas and all kinds of things you would not think would live in our little desolate area where there is not much around but they are here and they are here big time.  I really think the Board needs to consider very closely what it is you authorize to get done because you are not going to be the Paul Bunyons; it is going to be somebody contracted.  I am sure Mr. Petty is not doing this either.  If these guys come in and take specifically what they want and I know again the city is watching and permitted things but still nonetheless this is an issue which is a lot more than just nuisance trees.  You call them bushes I call them shrubs.  I call bamboo beautiful and I have three big stands of bamboo that if you cut it to 6’ it is going to grow back anyway.  Bamboo stops the winds and goes really nice in the wind but the one thing it did not do in the storm was to go over.  I am concerned with that; I like what I have obviously.  I have spent a lot of money doing this because in the past  your canal bank was done so good it was hard to get things in even 15’ from the bank because the developers have a lot of rock there.  We spent a lot of money on this and I think it needs to be taken into consideration in your vote as far as what you authorize to be done to keep the peace and the harmony of the whole thing. 

I did not bring any graphics or anything but there have been a lot of things thrown out like the 5,000 trees.  What percent of the trees were the nuisance trees because we have to strip those out because they should go. 

My apologies for being somewhat rude in the last meeting.  We got off to a bad start we should not have got off to because it was known by some here what the permitting rules are for the county and the City of Coral Springs.  Even though it is your right-of-way you need a permit even for a nuisance tree.  If you go for anything more than a nuisance tree then you have to work on mitigation.  This is the way it is; it does not mean you cannot ask to do all of this.  Obviously on the nuisance trees everybody is behind it and the city supports you fully.  I do not think you want a situation where you have the residents going irate even though it is only a few like at the Pine Tree Water Control District where all of a sudden they came home from work and their things were gone.  I think you saw it in the paper last week. 

I appreciate what Mr. Petty does for a living and I think he is very good at it but it is you the Board members which I want to appeal to relative to keeping the spirit of Coral Springs; bamboos and things like that.  We are talking about oxygen, we are talking about all kinds of stuff, some of this does not have to go and we do not need to do this on a rush.  In fact at one stage last July when we had our last meeting Sunshine Water Control Distict was going to be the guinea pig.  That is from the minutes of the CSID May meeting and this is also how I know people knew about the permitting procedures because their attorney who is different than yours gave them an attorney’s report and he stated quite clearly you cannot do any of this stuff without permits. 

The bottom line is I ask for some consideration on this.  I know my neighbor is here and would extend the same in we would be happy to have you come for a walk through to see what we have.  It is a beautiful backyard with great wildlife and you should see the other side.  If you have been down the canal in a boat you are only seeing the one side and that is the back side to my property.  You should see the front and then ask yourself is this really, really a problem.  

Ms. Macomber stated thank you very much, Mr. Rung, we appreciate your comments.  As I said the last meeting we are you.  In fact, I know my collegue and I have lived in Coral Springs a long time.  I love my trees, too and I love Coral Springs for what it is.  I remember when we used to have a lot more trees everywhere when we used to be called the city in the country.  Things change and I guess some people call it progress.  We do not serve because of the glory and you can obviously see that having been at the last meeting.  We serve because we want to make a contribution to the community.  I appreciate your comments; we are co-residents like you.  Each of us has a property which is important to us and each of us loves the nature we can get in the city because of the way the city has been built up.  I want you to know we take our responsibilites very seriously and sometimes we find ourselves between a rock and a hard place as a result because we have the responsibilty of listening to your interest, honoring them and at the same time protecting your interest in the water which flows through Coral Springs. 

Mr. John Rochester, Deer Run, stated we have what this gentleman called a box-cut canal.  If you squared off the top of the bank it is probably about 4’ in and he is correct if you fall in you are not getting out.  I am assuming what you are saying is everything from flat portion at the top of the bank is not going but you are using the phrase “this phase”.  What do you mean by that?  It sounds like a beginning not an overall plan. 

Mr. Petty responded it is.  The recommendation will be anything below the design high water level is considered to be a problem and we will go after the nuisance trees first and then go after the ornamentals after talking with the city to try to figure out a better way of protecting the canopy may be coming up with a tree for a tree program or something like that but not going above designed high water.  We will suggest to the Board we have a policy of maintaining from the water wherever possible, only going on the bank when it was not possible or as the District needed and remove any trees or hinderances at that time.  It would be a storm event if I came on the right-of-way at the top. 

Mr. Rochester stated we have South America Palms, probably the only the only ones outside of the botanical gardens in this part of the state.  It has taken 25 years and they are right at the top of the bank.  I would like to save them.  I cannot move them they are way to heavy and they were well over 40’ before the tops got broken but they are growing back. 

Mr. Petty stated one of the items our sister district, CSID, and the gentleman said about them calling us a guenia pig, we use them for the same thing because they started their tree removal and is why we held off our contract to see what happened to them first.  In this case CSID granted the manager authority to make exceptions on a case by case basis and if it is an issue of is it at the top of the bank of 6” around it we would do an inspection to evaluate whether there is a material problem and make an exception if possible.  In this case it is what are people have talked about as the reasonableness factor of applying this.  Not going out and saying a rule is a rule and that is all there is to it.  They are trying to be reasonable in the application with the exception that everything below the design high water level is a risk. 

Mr. Rochester stated I understand and it makes total sense.  Would you bring up basically a appeals process? Will we be notified before they came through to destroy something?  When FEMA came through they would not even talk to a homeowner, they would walk away while you were trying to talk to them come back with a chainsaw and take the tree down. 

Mr. Petty responded the process we did in CSID is one where it was done in the field where residents upon notice we were coming to the area were given the opportunity to call the District and ask for an exemption.  We would talk to the resident on the phone call, explained the designed high water level as being not exemptable but everything above being exemptable.

Mr. Rochester asked will it be a letter?  The newspaper which not everybody reads, a door hanger?  How will this be done? 

Mr. Petty responded door hangers is how we did it in the sister district although this body may elect any type of notification they see fit. 

Mr. Rochester stated a lot of times someone tells me the read it in the newspaper.  I do not read it and I missed it. 

Mr. Petty stated we find door hangers are probably the best way. 

Mr. Rochester stated with the top of bank in our yard it is probably about 4’ from the water.  My aunt has the new sloped bank and it is about 15’.  She has four Queen Palms almost to the top of the bank, is she going to lose those?

Mr. Petty responded let me suggest to you this.  One of the ways we can define top of bank, nature giving us the opportunity, we can temporarily block water in an area, pump water in and raise the water table for a short period of time to the elevation.  Other than that we will bring out survey crews.  One of the two methods will be used.  If we had a lot of high water at the time which would not be a threat we may able to block the outlets and raise the water for a short period of time to mark the design high water line. 

Mr. Rochester stated sounds expensive.

Mr. Petty stated surveyors cost a bit on money, too.  

Mr. Rochester stated there is that but you will also have everybody saying you are drowning my grass and I would not blame them but I also see your side of it. 

Mr. Petty stated one of the two methods would be used to try to give the residents the opportunity from the design top of bank.

Mr. Rochester stated she is concerned aboout her palms. 

Mr. Petty stated the other way to do it is to give out to anybody who asked the control water elevations at the time.  Our people know where the water level is in your area.  We have markers through out the District.  We can say the water in your backyard is at elevtion 8, go 4’ up from that, draw a staight line over to your lot and this is where the line is.  This gives you a good eyeball reference without incurring cost. 

Mr. Rochester stated you were talking about a mitigation program for planting other trees. 

Mr. Petty stated this is what the city currently calls their program.  If you cut down a tree in Coral Springs they have what they call a mitigation program where they look at the size of the tree by girth, the type of tree and then they have a formula. 

Mr. Rochester stated this is street trees they are talking about. 

Mr. Petty stated you are right and the city’s program is not perfect by any stretch. 

Ms. Macomber stated but they are working with us on it and this is something we have to be happy about. 

Mr. Petty stated this is why we are saying we are working with the city.  We are asking the city to help us out on this matter for ornamentals. 

Mr. Rochester stated I have a large bamboo which starts at the top of the bank and goes all the way to the water.  Are they going to take the whole plant or just half of it?

Mr. Petty responded bamboo is a plant we have not discussed.  I am familiar with bamboo, my father grows it.  I am familiar with the root structure and I cannot imagine it causing a problem to the bank.  I cannot imagine the root structure being uprooted by anything.  The only thing I can see it as if I have to drive there during a storm event I am going to have mow it down and I think everybody understands that during a storm event.  It may be a plant we want to talk about specifically and say it is not a tree it is a bush. 

Mr. Rochester stated a 30’ bush but yes. 

Mr. Petty stated I do not know how it is botanically classified. 

Mr. Rochester stated it is a grass.  I am a tree surgeon by trade and I am a fanatical plant collector. 

Mr. Petty stated I can tell you the reasonableness factor says if the tree a threat to blocking flow or destroying bank if it should come down in a rain event and that is anything below that bank.  Bamboo because of its special characteristics may not be considered a threat.  I will have to check on it but personally from my own knowledge I cannot see where it is but I would want to ask somebody about it to see if there is something I do not know. 

Mr. Rochester stated sounds reasonable, thank you.

Ms. Macomber asked does anyone else have a comment?  Also, I must say we are very grateful you have come out and shown this interest.  We sometimes think we are the lone rangers up here trying to figure out what we should be doing or what you want us to do.  It is really nice to have your imput. 

Mr. Greg Michael, 73rd Way, stated I have 305’ on the ditch.  Mr. Petty I would like to say I appreciate your demenor, which has done a 180o.  You seem to have considered some other options from the last time and I respect that.  Madame Chair I hear generalities here.  I would like to ask some questions to eliminate some of the generalities.  Can you give me a specific on non-issue plants?  Will the contractor know this is a non-issue plant and to leave it there?  Will it be marked in any manner?

Mr. Petty responded before this last contract of Pine Tree Water Control District I would have said no we do not want to incur the cost of marking the trees but then I had a very well meaning contractor go through and take out about 300’ of right-of-way.  I am more inclined to think about marking the trees now than I had been in past now that I have seen a contractor err.

Mr. Michael asked will you mark the trees or not?

Mr. Petty responded it would not be my decision per say but I am leaning toward recommending it to the Board.  Understand staff is not asking the Board to make a decision tonight on this.  We would want to make a written policy so everybody has a chance to see it including the residents.

Mr. Michael stated I would like you to define clearly reasonable distant?  Is it the distance a tree may fall? Is it the distance from the water?  Is there such a distance you are thinking about? 

Mr. Petty responded at tonight’s meeting I do not have a distance per say but I can tell you generally what I had intended to talk to the Board about tonight and at the next meeting where we would write this up; my first draft will be below design high water level is a threat and I cannot see any way other than to call it a threat.

Mr. Michael stated the threat will be removed.

Mr. Petty stated unless we talked about a couple of things.  One was bamboo; can I apply a reasonableness factor to it and come up with a reasonable reliance that it is not a threat.  I will be very honest with you I would write it up so this body made that determination whether it was reasonable. 

Mr. Michael stated it is the term reasonable that I am scared of having some friends in Parkland and I saw what happened there.  They were told one thing and the crews did another, history is a predictor of future.

Ms. Macomber stated if it is any consolation I think we heard what you are saying and I think we have taken into account what Mr. Petty said about the occurance. 

Mr. Michael stated I have a question and I do not mean to insult you in any manner but would you be doing this if you were not making a profit on it?

Mr. Petty asked would I work for the District without being paid?

Mr. Michael responded Severn Trent.

Mr. Petty stated no.

Mr. Michael stated Severn Trent is the profit center, the business is for profit. 

Mr. Petty stated the management firm for these drainage districts has always been a for profit management company since the beginning.  I have worked for them under the name Gary Moyer, under Moyer and Associates, and under Severn Trent.  I have been here 25 plus years. 

Mr. Michael stated this is motivated by profit. 

Mr. Petty stated I am.  Not tree removal but working for the District. 

Mr. Michael asked next year in 2007 is there a budget to continue with the trimming and maintenance of the canals?  After this money, the $576,000, what is the 2007 plan?  Will it continue, will you mow it and maintain it?  Does it revert back to us to maintain this stretch of land?

Mr. Petty responded there is a budget for tree removal because we expect to still be working on it in this fiscal year which started October 1st.  I do not have a budget for fiscal year 2008 yet it will be prepared in the late spring of 2007.  There is money in it this year for the removal of trees because we are still looking at it from design high water level. 

Mr. Michael stated we are going to be sure and spend all the money to remove all of the trees. 

Mr. Petty stated every year this District typically has a carry forward which is applied to keep the assessments low.  If you have lived in Sunshine fo